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Hoak last won the day on May 26 2019

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  1. WW3 is an outstanding game, it offers an almost perfect recipe of just about everything Gamers claim to want: responsive dev team, massive feature float with something to satisfy virtually every whim, solid game-play, great net-code, steady progress -- fill in the blank with your pet wish, it's being taken care of here better then just about anywhere by any of the 'AAA' publisher/developers. It's sad to see threads like why did you stop playing, and the petty criticism in threads like that one as most of these really aren't the reasons more people aren't playing. The fundamental reason people aren't playing is servers are empty, and this isn't a consequence of sophomoric gamers needing instant gratification -- it's literally no choice of games to join & play when they have time to play... Lack of effective marketing, and egregious marketing miss-steps by The Farm 51 have had a big effect on this. High on that list would be undervaluing the game selling it at ghetto game prices; this never works, people inherently undervalue that which is easily acquired -- and this is more true in disposable entertainment than anywhere. As well and obviously, people can't play a game they don't even know about... It's unfortunate that 'make a great game and the players will come' just isn't true as it once was, there's just too much crap competeing for Gamer attention, and marketing budgets that exceed the cost of game development by many times (multiples even), with massive marketing research and production budgets driving these campaigns creating a miasma of information distraction. The Farm 51 and WW3 can't compete in such a marketing venue, and shouldn't, but that doesn't obviate the need for steady, effective Guerilla marketing paralleling development strategy, and there is a lot that can be done here that's proven to work, that isn't being pursued, that leverages and eventuates sales growth and steady increase in play-share. Some of the most effective Guerilla marketing in game sales that has proven effective involves Fan participation -- one of the earliest examples was mod development. In one example this spawned over a quarter of a million fan/mod sites for a game in this genre in the early 2000's that was instrumental in its success as the game had virtually no advertising... But even a handful of Fan sites that people are intrigued by and regularly visit can be an enormous boon. Some have commented that WW3 needs bots and coop to build play-share, that certainly wouldn't hurt, and while developing path-node or nave-mesh bots or AI can be tedious (it's not hard just time consuming) this could be leveraged with a 'Bot/AI MDK' allowing fans of WW3 to get involved in a manner that doesn't interfere with the clear design path a game needs to be marketed and understood by a new audience. There are an enormous number of approaches that could be taken to leverage Fan interest and effort and the Pareto Principle of 80% of the results for 20% of the cost and effort employing Guerilla marketing technique. Listing and describing even a few could make this an even longer post -- and it's obviously easy to suggest work that requires someone else's initial initiative and effort, but it seems naive to assume things will change without a more effective approach...
  2. Yes you are correct, this is exactly what I said, articulated another way. Game camera or 'principle axis' translation as it's technically called should not translate in the roll axis, because this isn't how we see.
  3. As the WW3 Developers may be rerigging the aim system according to the roadmap I thought this worthy of mention for those that would like more realism in the game. A canting camera and/or weapon is technically, metrically wrong; both in terms of proper weapon handling and perspective -- the world does not 'tilt' if we cant our body, head, or rifle; separately or in unison even if we are handling a weapon incorrectly, and canting an aimed firearm from any fire position is always incorrect weapon handling* that is rigorously repudiated and corrected in virtually all firearms training -- military and civilian. Many games some less realistic than WW3 execute this correctly including Red Orchestra, America's Army, Ghost Recon, Modern Warfare when it had leaning, and the last iteration of Medal of Honor -- all had more realistic uncated weapon handling and camera in lean, though none had realistic stance based lateral cover or cornering animation however. * Exception: CAR Shooting System for very close CQC with handguns... Canting as far as weapon handling is functionally wrong ( you can read why if you don't know about or understand this subject here and here) as it makes for very poor weapon control and accuracy. Virtually every approach to firearms training, military or civilian, will have you b*tch slapped for doing this from any fire position -- and it's completely trained out of most military riflemen. While you know the you're head or body is canted if you lean; visually the world does not cant or tilt due to synesthesia of proprioception and how we see, so tilting game camera is technically incorrect as well. What's more, shooting stance when 'cornering' or firing from lateral cover is not accomplished by leaning at the waist as is typically done in a lot of games with cheap lean animation, it's accomplished with a stance or weight shift over one leg and alteration of rifle fire position -- long thread discussing this here with illustrations. Finally, and probably most important: correct un-canted weapon handling based on model stance solves a lot of issues for the developer as far as animation which as far as simpler and hit box alignment. The result gives the virtual Player vastly better proprioceptive and virtual kinesthetic cues as to how well covered he is (or isn't) when firing from lateral cover in a leaning stance -- and is obviously more realistic and immersive.
  4. Oh yes, make WW3 just like Rainbow Sex Trendy Crotch Siege! ? Complete with Liberache costumes! And singing Elton John cameos! WW 3 also "NEEDS" (I love how that word gets abused *sarcasm*) COD size phone booth maps with 512 players with grenade launchers, instant respawn, infinite ammo, 1S1K pistols, rainbow vomit, and nuclear weapon strikes! Adding the Canadian Navy would be great too as all maps support it!
  5. It is impressive, but really not so much an overhaul as steady progress: TF51 are hardworking, attentive, talented and committed. If you saw internal builds of BF3, they made the initial release of WW 3 look positively first rate by comparison, and that's not an exaggeration. I think when some people see an early access game with the high standard of art assets and feature complement that WW 3 offers, they expect too much polish -- building out features in a game of this scale is work, work, work -- tons of it! And no one that does it is paid enough imho, and far too many that start out loving it burn out. Back on topic there's a heap of features and details in WW 3 that are either original or polished and better executions of the same thing in other games, I don't want to clog the thread with just 'my discoveries' buuut, there's some really neat stuff in WW 3 that just looks or works really well. The slide animation would be one example; it doesn't look or feel ridiculous, and actually works where you'd need it to.
  6. I agree, in fact I'd sum up my previous point adding: Anything that adds player interaction to the game, where players weren't able to interact previously -- generally adds fun and sustains or even grows play-share so long as it's balanced. Being able to shoot out of gun ports when transported would be an example. Anything that's just a cosmetic update to the game, can (and probably will) add an enormous workload for a Developer, and then take weeks or even months to get working right as there are always unforeseen consequences. Ask yourself: do you really want time taken away from adding/fixing other things, or even other content left out of the game for exit animations? Walking back what I said a little; all the suggestions here are great, they come from the same enthusiasm we all have in common here for this kind of game -- but imagine you are developing WW 3, trying to prioritize all this based on forum reaction, and the success of the game and your paycheck is on the line. I hope WW 3 fans take what TF41 is offering here more seriously; not many Developers this capable interact with fans on this level. Carefully weighing your comments, and comments you choose to bump can go a long way to helping them make a better game, or wasting a lot of time. Having been a Developer I can offer the 'My Thoughts' and 'My Pet Wishes' topics are real eye rollers as you just don't have time to wade through someone's vague and disorganized thinking, or the digression that results from it -- clear, well organized, facts and numbers, examples, with generalities to specifics and fans corroborating they love or hate the thing is what we were looking for.
  7. While aesthetic realism of enter/exit animations is nice, it has a slew of issues for a Developer, not the least of which is cost -- it's a mountain of work. The man (and/or women) hours that can be poured into a game are finite, and this involves a lot of design and code work as well in deciding when you transition from taking damage to covered by armor as this gets complicated at the net-code level with regards to vehicle and player position and time constants and can end up being a lot of messy "WTF!?" that takes another five man years to fix. Not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but just one tenth of 1% of the suggestion on these forums would be enough work to keep a an experienced team of 500 busy for the next fifty years. I'd much rather see The Farm 51 focus on game design and content that keeps people playing -- stuff that will make this a sustainable enterprise for them and game for us. When the game takes off, and I think it will, and it's a roaring success and they're rolling in money -- then high granularity aesthetic features like exit animations could more realistically become a thing. In the mean time, it might help a lot of everyone made more of an effort to focus on the things you know are really the most important, not the 'wouldn't it be cool if ' stuff -- but the stuff that hurts the game by making something more of a frustration then a skill challenge, or toil rather then fun.
  8. WW 3 really is an outstanding game; one example of the attention and thought given to design is like other games you can call air strikes, including the track of a strafing run. While many games have done this before, what can suck about being on the receiving end is it's blind side obliterating death that no amount of skill can obviate -- but in WW 3 you have radar warning of incoming air-to-ground attacks, you then hear and then can see the flight path of the incoming plane, so if you're attentive and you move for cover, you can survive. There's lots of attention to design in WW 3 like this that really makes the game more skill based, fun, and an impressive work; many that some of us may take for granted, and others may not be aware of -- please chime in and add anything you love about the game that adds some nice attention to detail and outcome, it's almost certain some of us are missing things that can make WW 3 even more fun!
  9. Much more important imho because it effects game-play, would be to have some control of where you exit a vehicle -- currently the vehicle exit plops you into the game in very unpredictable locations -- not something you want from an infantry vehicle for example...
  10. I suggested this in the Make More Money Thread here on the Design Ideas & Suggestions sub forum as well... You make some good points Twitch_Hawkeyepc -- and this would make WW 3 a first mover for realism gaming on the Epic Store, and being the first genre mover on any platform or venue is always helpful or even decisive with respect to popularity. As well, WW 3 is a UE game, and if there's ever any manner of mod support being on the inclusive Epic platform can only help in that regard -- shades of Counter-Strike on Steam... All that said many developers of UE engine realism games have submitted request for selling their games on the Epic Game Store as soon as or even before it went live; and are still waiting... Blackfoot Studios developers of Ground Branch are one one example, that have been ready to go since get-go and have been cooling their heels waiting. Perhaps the folks at The Farm 51 are in the same boat, and/or realism fans need to vet more realism games on the Unreal Engine store.
  11. Well most of the content in the game is more than 'cool enough' for me. The idea of having a pay option is as much to offer people a non-destructive means to support the game as it would be for the impatient to 'have it now'. Personally I'm usually indifferent to the cosmetic stuff as long as it's congruent and realistic, and don't mind a bit of a grind to get to a game's content -- but I'd be more than willing to pay more to get it and support this game and its developer! Going this rout also offers some nice marketing and advertising opportunity to boost awareness and steady the revenue stream from the game . Were TF51 to start offering clown costumes, man thongs, and weapon skins that look like bad shelf paper from some going out of business sale from a home repair store -- I'd be very disappointed and would instead be willing to pay money for an option to block seeing such histrionic crap. Siege is a poster child example that looked fairly realistic and was somewhat immersive when it was new (and had more bugs then WW 3 ever has), now that game is a screaming eye sore that looks like cross between a Mardi Gras and Gay Pride parade that has nothing to do with tactical realism -- a revenue model I sincerely hope TF51 does not pursue.
  12. Hopefully The Farm 51 is as good (or better) at monetizing WW 3 as they are at art asset development and game design. Unfortunately, most indie Developers are not, even many over financed 'AAA' game Publishers fumble badly at monetizing a game that is otherwise very successful, either by asset stripping the game's design to 'monetize everything' turning it into a parade float trash arcade shopping mall of 'content' for sale that ends up being a substitute for or even obviating fun game design, some ridiculous over-priced subscription model, or, don't ask for enough money from the game's audience to keep things going. When I look at World War 3's road map, even if the release target features were curtailed by 40% -- the game is way under priced! The number of man hours in development to get there is just too high, or the talent too under paid. Very few game fans have a clue how difficult and time consuming game development is, how under paid Developers are, and those that feel WW 3 is expensive only do so because they're simply ignorant and selfishly base their assumptions on an early access work in progress, with no clue what work-a-day development on a game like this costs and how quickly unsustainable that can become if revenue slides. Some of the audience get it, others are starting to get a clue; there is incredible talent behind this game, progress might not be as fast as some would wish, but it's real, the game is solid, most importantly fun, and well on track to being something very impressive. With that in mind, intellectual honesty requires that everyone acknowledge these guys gotta get paid to keep doing it but some revenue models are more appealing then others, some are out-right discouraging, and others will simply not bring in enough money to sustain a game like World War 3's development. With all that in mind, it might be productive for people to solicit what they like or don't mind paying for, and what they do. I for one don't mind paying for expansions or in game content like uniforms or even game features that aren't over powering and can lead to 'pay to win' doubt. In that WW 3 is multi-player only, expansions that are map based will segregate the audience between those that bought and those that did not -- which can hurt a game's play share. However, there have been a lot of game marketing studies that corroborate Gamers like game franchises that continue familiar game metrics and expand them... Directions TF51 could take this that would get my money without hesitation: · in-game content for sale as an alternative of ranking into them (uniforms, weapons, attachments, insignia etc.) · feature content for sale (custom game UI, music, voice commands, and other features and content that don't effect game-play) · dedicated server license (this could require a subscription fee) Personally I'd like to see package 'Supporter's Editions' deals on buying all content for the game, and think the price should be steep -- because I want to support TF51 and this game having a future, and thing others that do should have that opportunity too! It would also be nice to see World War 3 for sale on the Epic Game Store, I'd buy it there a second time just to have it handy, this would also expose Unreal Engine fans to the game, and it would also have 'first mover' status on that platform being the first realism game there which would help garner attention and market share. On all platforms it's sold on it might be productive to have and package deals where if you buy 4, 5, or 10 copies for friends you get a small discount, and same way with 'Supporter's Editions' that get all the content. Lastly, I hope The Farm 51 is able to make enough money to take World War 3 to the franchise level, and offer full content expansions or sequels. I'd love to see a multi-player Special Operations asymmetrical warfare game that was lower tempo, incorporated stealth, but played on the scale of WW3. In the mean time I hope more fans chime in here, beat the drum for this game in other venues, make fan sites, and help make The Farm 51 and WW3 a sustainable franchise.
  13. Hoak


    I like all of it, I think their Music Producer (all their Asset Artists for that matter) are fantastic. It would be much more suitable if they were to release a full soundtrack for sale on Steam. You do want to support the continued development of this game? Right? The score/soundtrack could includes everything from the game, trailers, and any stuff composed for the game that wasn't used that's thematically similar -- and allow the player to assign it in game as some other games have done. No one is going to want or like the same music here, your pet wish is going to be the anathema that's someone else's 'contact bummer' and either gets turned off or is a turn off from playing the game... You do want more people playing the game? Right? Or is you having your pet wish music more important then having players in a multi-player game really more important?
  14. I agree, I think the progress and attention to detail in WW 3 is simply stunning! It's now at the top of my list of all time favorite realism and tactical realism shooters, and at this rate it could set a new high water mark. All the nit-picking and complaining reminds me of what went on with early releases of Insurgency -- that game went on to a slow burn sales surge that was monumental and as WW 3 is a vastly more ambitious project, with more features, content, higher standards and original ideas that rival and even surpass many so called 'AAA' titles; so much so much so once real and broad discovery happens, we'll see a play share and sales explosion that surpasses what happened with games like DayZ and PUBG. The impatience and histrionics here and on the Steam forums betray deep seated enthusiasm for the void that exists in realism gaming and The Farm 51 are the only Developer hard at work and on track with WW 3 to really deliver. There are an enormous number of future fans of WW 3 that have never been exposed to the early days of game mod development and ambitious indie games, or the crawl, walk, run, sprint rate of progress and adoption that inevitably unfolds with games that are as clearly a labor of love and hard work as WW 3. WW 3 will have it's day in the sun, and The Farm 51 will be another celebrity studio, hopefully when that happens they don't jump the shark...
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