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Anunnaki

shotguns are op

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Nah, they are not OP at all, fake news. They are just inconsistent. Sometimes they deliver 1 shot kills and sometimes it takes another 2 or more shots, in the meantime you are dead. If you are smart and target the gut, your chances of doing well in CQC is much higher, but shotguns are pretty useless outside of CQC, as they should be. So I don't understand the cries about shotguns. People cry about them in BF3, then BF4, then Cod WW2... Basically there always room for crying over shotguns, so your only options are to get rid of them or make them useless. Also there is a secret 3rd option, don't listen to whiny babies and make it a viable CQB weapon. 

Edited by Artaxiad300062
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17 hours ago, Ragir said:

They only have higher damage on close range, and the damage drops off quicker, so it looks kinda like this (this is really quick and dirty):

image.png

It's more of a gameplay decision of "will I shoot short range or long range more" rather than anything else.

As for the other suggestions: ADS time, reload time and other variables are also playing a role, but to make those balanced it's not enough IMO - I'm not saying that this is perfect by any means (and I still agree that shotguns are OP), but it does help with balancing the different roles.

As I said, with shotguns, it's still the problem of long barrel being a sniper barrel and short barrels making close quarters combat heavily favor guys with shotguns. It doesn't matter what the reload time or ADS speed is when all you have to do is drop two shots from point blank from hip fire to win a firefight even against a 7.62 LMG. If we tried to balance it using only other stats than damage, the spread from hip would have to be 180 degrees (just random chance to kill someone), reload would have to be laughably slow etc.

BUT! That doesn't mean that we won't try to strike a balance here with less damage diferences and more of those auxiliary parameters, we've just added separate horizontal and vertical recoil modifiers, so we could just make the short barrel kick more horizontally.

Problem is, someone is gonna make a forum post explaining, that this is not how stuff works and we should just make long barrels do less damage on short distances :P

Hey Ragir,

 

thanks for your reply. I know that it works like this (made a graph similar to yours somewhere :D copycat :P).

I am not sure though if it works like this already by now? Whatever. All your explanations make a lot of sense but system needs a very careful balancing. Long barrels are a lot heavier and right now also the worse choice performance wise.

Before, one wanted to equip the long barrel if it would not put you in the heavier bracket. Now, there is not really a single reason to equip it. I am mainly speaking of rifles so it's kinda off topic but the thing is that the damage drop off starts so late it hardly ever plays a role (as of now) and the recoil is easy enough to control. I am curious how it plays out after the final balancing but so far I think this decision leads to more balancing problems than it solves. 

 

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3 hours ago, HeiligeRobbe said:

damage drop off starts so late it hardly ever plays a role

That's the main problem IMO, the short range is kinda long, and I agree it needs balancing. I think it's now set to 60m, and that's basically most of the engagements in the game, I'd say 20m is even too much.

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On 9/6/2019 at 2:09 PM, Anunnaki said:

shotguns are annoying and no fun, if this game  crossword solver sip calculator epfo gonna be any different shotguns should be difficult to use in some way either reduce damage or whatever.

Most of the players i met with my MCS are just frustrated because if got better timing and aiming, but on long ranges the MCS sucks like hell as a shotgun should do and does in real life and WW3 :)

Edited by samwisewilton

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idk why ppl complain about shotguns. They are awesome, good balanced, playable and the most awesome within all FPSes i`ve ever played

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25 minutes ago, Salt Lord said:

No idea why people think they are OP 

the "logic" is quite simple: shotguns can oneshot. Shotguns are OP

But something is missed in this "logic": range, their accuracy, rate of fire. The gold rule of calling something OP is: "play with it by yourself, show much better results than your average". Who knows, maybe its not shotguns OP, but the one who dies from it is low?

 

Following this i can complain that "tanks are OP" - they oneshot me everytime.

Edited by Atway

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Shotguns are very good in TDM, you have no chance against a shotgun player in tight corridors, this is probably where this comes from. If you can't defend you feel like it's OP, but if you win a fight on longer distance, you don't feel it - so you only see a problem when you die from it.

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Yeah, that's why our designers keep saying they're not OP, and I'm saying the range is too long :P

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