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Breakthrough - Feedback

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Soldiers!

Please feel free to leave your feedback regarding new Breakthrough game-mode, this topic is designed only for the new game-mode, general feedback about patch 0.8 you can post here:

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Defenders need time to move to another pair of points, after losing the zone. Attackers at this moment should not be able to "rush" new pair  and plant bomb when nobody of defenders there. (Cos defenders did not have time to respawn, there leader not respawn - point already Under Attact, or they did not have time to run). For attackers, the new zone should be “out of the battlefield” for a few seconds.

P.S.
BF1 have nice system: u need kill all defenders on an already captured zone before attack next.

Edited by ೞoℓf✌
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I'll double post above. Sometimes attacking team is literally rushing and defenders can't stop them as they need to take positions to defend stations. And B1-B2 spawn placing on Berlin IMO should reworked. Sometimes when there are 2-3 guys on the railways they can literally start spawn raping defenders.

And 1 more thing. IMO there should be 1min countdown before the match would start(attackers could enter A zone), so the defenders would be able to place  mines, take positions etc. Because somehow when there was map change and I spawn I would see that few guys(with more powerful PCs I presume) are already attacking/defending 1st station. And u need or rush to defend vs 2 vehicles near the 1st station or rush to attack while seeing how these few guys fuck up and now don't have ur MRAP to support ur atttack. Don't know though how much of it is the "fault" of an announced "no warm-up on PTE".

P.S. Best item in this mode - Smoke grenade. Without them attackers can't win if the numbers are below 7v7 or there is no vehicle.

Edited by tynblpb
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Breakthrough has some pretty bad objective placements and really bad spawn locations. 

For example on polyarny on one of last objectives, the attacker spawn is literally less than 30m away from both the objectives and on berlin, defenders can spawn right in middle of the Subway area next to the B1 objective even when a bomb has been planted. The attacker spawn points need to be moved further away from the objectives because right now they are basically a few meters away.

As for the objective placements. There are a lot of better areas these objectives could have been placed on like for example the crashed plane area on berlin. And some of they objectives are way to close together. 

 

This mode can be a lot better and support more players than 20 players (which it really should) if these spawn locations and objective placements are improved. 

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Forgot this topic exists. Already posted in 0.8, but will copy my breakthrough part here. Highlighted the TL;DR parts in green/red depending whether it's positive or not :)

 

Regarding breakthrough, I feel like the mode is good but once again I am personally undecided whether I prefer the community breakthrough or the dev breakthrough, because of the objective differences. Also, even at 10v10 the mode does feel a bit empty, I'd say it would probably be safe to go for a 15v15. The defenders seem to be lacking a lot when it comes to getting points, while the attackers get plenty of points. Even for the attacking team, there's a large contrast in score due to the fact one person gets between 1000-2000 points for destroying the objective, so maybe reward the rest of the team with some sort of bonus if they're close or have done damage to the objective even if they didn't put the final hit into it. And perhaps reward defenders for every X time the objective wasn't destroyed with Y points, maybe 500 or so. Although I think this mode is far better balanced than Warzone and TDM combined, not sure if it's the players we're playing with, or the mode itself, but the games seem to be a lot more close, and therefore fun.

I've also heard complaints some people find it hard to know if they're attacking or defending, although I personally got to understand it quick. On top of this, I think the stations should give some visual and audio alert when a charge is planted. Right now it's sometimes hard to notice something was planted.

Overall though, the experience has been great, it brought a great fresh air to the game, and I thank the devs for making this happen. I feel like it's better than 0.6 in regards to making the game feel a lot different, and a lot better.

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I HAVE A GREAT IDEA!!!

Devs, could u plz invert bases placement on Warsaw? I for the first time in last 8-10 months was running under the surface on the Rail StAtion. It's finally "new" impressions for me and rly new for majority of players who would try Breakthrough when it would enter Live. Pliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiz?

And for Berlin too! It's almost impossible for attackers to take A1-A2 stations if they don't have vehicles to support them. And even if they are good enough they would spend TOO much time trying to pass A1-A2 barrier with it's open spaces on the left side and 2 small doors and the right side. So current C1-2 and D1-2 stations are almost abandoned and don't receive the action they deserve. Add to this that fact that on WZ too these areas are almost all the time empty and I think it'll be obvious that bases placement should be inverted on both Berlin and Warsaw. All above is IMO, but it was much more interesting to fight inside the RailStation on Warsaw than in the mall. MUCH more.

Question: 

3 strike bars on Breakthrough. Is it intended? Because usually my most expensice strikes are the last and I lost them when playing Breakthrough.

This  is how Warsaw looks like from the defenders base. I want new impressions! And not to loose time I've painted few ideas about what I would change about current HUD. Plus add Sharpen effect to the icons in the right lower corner of the screen.

20191026211053_1.thumb.jpg.c424f91b10f5044b8affea1d2e1bb6c6.jpg

 

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10 hours ago, tynblpb said:

And for Berlin too! It's almost impossible for attackers to take A1-A2 stations if they don't have vehicles to support them. And even if they are good enough they would spend TOO much time trying to pass A1-A2 barrier with it's open spaces on the left side and 2 small doors and the right side

 

I had this same issue with my gameplay. Although it's perfecctly fair to point out that strikes like the smoke artillery could be used to get past snipers, there are literally just two sets of passages and one open area that gives cover for defending snipers.

10 hours ago, tynblpb said:

I HAVE A GREAT IDEA!!!

Devs, could u plz invert bases placement on Warsaw? I for the first time in last 8-10 months was running under the surface on the Rail StAtion. It's finally "new" impressions for me and rly new for majority of players who would try Breakthrough when it would enter Live. Pliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiz?

So current C1-2 and D1-2 stations are almost abandoned and don't receive the action they deserve. Add to this that fact that on WZ too these areas are almost all the time empty and I think it'll be obvious that bases placement should be inverted on both Berlin and Warsaw. All above is IMO, but it was much more interesting to fight inside the RailStation on Warsaw than in the mall. MUCH more.

 

I agree, these are areas which are only otherwise seen in WZ large, and with the issues in capturing the current A1 point in Berlin giving the attacking team enough time to get points for strikes could balance it a little.

 

Breakthrough overall feels much faster paced than Warzone, and was quite fun even with only a few players on each team. I like that the maps feature new areas, as I actually discovered parts of the Berlin map that I had never gone to before and cannot predict all the angles for.

I would like to see a warm up for breakthrough as well. Even though the balancing means that all odd player numbers land on the defending team, it's possible to join just a bit late and already be losing.

Edited by nubbits

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Devs could u plz make that 1st player on the server would be on the attacking side. I wanted to test how much dmg would be dealt by different weapons to the stations, but when I'm alone I can't because I'm defender and when I'm not alone defender would not let me do this(why?).

And 1 more thing. IMO, when exploding station should deal AOE dmg. Now u can place charges on them and stay/sit near without any worries that u would die when they will explode.

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4 godziny temu, nubbits napisał:

I would like to see a warm up for breakthrough as well. Even though the balancing means that all odd player numbers land on the defending team, it's possible to join just a bit late and already be losing.

image.png.23e37e906e1639c29a6b272dcbbf2430.png

It's only for testing ;) 

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This mode should be atleast 15v15 because it currently feels very empty. 

But before that can be implemented you need to fix some of these spawns because on some the attackers can spawn extreamly close to the objectives while on others the defenders can spawn right next to the objective while the bomb has been planted. 

The defenders should not be able to spawn on a objective that has a bomb planted on it but instead they get a mercy spawn close by. Because some of them currently are literally right next to the objective like for example on warsaw there is a bomb inside the B1 zone on the warzone version. But the defenders can literally spawn on the uppger level right before it where u can run up to from the A1 hallway. That's less than 10m away from the objective and the defenders can just jump down and be by the objective in less than 3 seconds after spawing. On berlin the defenders can spawn in direct line of sight of the B1 objective and the attackers defending the bomb. 

I know that u feel like having more than 20 players will makes it impossible to cap a point but from what i've played and seen, it's really spawns like these that's causing those issues. That and some poor objective placements but more on that later. 

Spawns need fixing and should not be as close to the objectives as some of them are currently. 

Also since it takes longer to defuse than to plant and the required time before detonation can be lowered by dealing damage. The default timer should be increased to 50 seconds or something. 

Edited by Salt Lord

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1. I think Warsawa well divided into zones, all maps should be separated like waves

2. Why are flags located close together? If you put them away and let play 15/15 and give some more time, it will be more fun.

3. @weedtime  I propose to create another topic with voting, where players can post their visions of flag positions. Having previously attached clean pictures of cards in the first message. I think anyone in paint can draw a point where, in his opinion, it should be.

For example, i prefer wide distance of flags from each other like b1 b2 // c1 c2 than d1 d2 and maybe a1 a2 too far, but if it possible to put respawn between them will be much better

Скрытый текст

3. image.png.c2bf4ac35ab56bf8d15449db9854ddbe.png

4. @Ragir Maybe devs can organisate the players to enter the map together at the same time, as was the case with recon. And 1 developer should be among the players, he can regulate the number of people on the server and analyze the situation like in recon mod.

Edited by ೞoℓf✌

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Agreed. That crashed airplane area on berlin is a perfect location for a capture point. Suprised they didn't use it. 

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5 hours ago, Salt Lord said:

Agreed. That crashed airplane area on berlin is a perfect location for a capture point. Suprised they didn't use it. 

Indeed as per the loading screen of this WW3 Multimedia Product !!

That will be a very strategic and well balanced distance capture point for the level.

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This 2 days I was triggered in WW3 more than in last half of a year...

Breakthrough is the mode that is MUCH MORE dependant on SQUAD teamplay. The longer ur squadleader is alive the more successfull(supposedly) is ur attack. Why? It's easy, stations are far enough and the SL as spawnpoint is more effective than captured CPs. But for SL to live he should stay a little behind while his squadmates are attacking. But here appear one problem:

why should I attack and plant charges if I can camp and shoot? - some ppl think this way. And when there is 1min left there is 1 station left and u see that 2 ur squadmates are staying behind and waiting for I don't know what... I start to write bad things about my teammates... And then I'm trying plant charges solo without support from the squadmates.

Partially they are right. There is one problem with earned points distribution in current iteration of Breakthrough. No matter how good and supportive was the squad/team, the one who'll plant the charges would get everything. 500BPs for planting. Up to 1000 for dealing dmg. And 1000 for destroying. All others (squad and the whole team) would receive... 0? And in the end it can be like this. 3 with 10k+ and 3 with x3 times lover score. Kills are somewhat equal.

20191027212308_1.thumb.jpg.2edf6efa031aff5afd6be51e529fadcb.jpg

 

I think it should be reworked. All numbers are approximate. Something like when teammates are in the vicinity of the station and there is charge planted - the receive like 100-200 assist points. When it was Squadmates and there was Attack order they would receive additional 100 green BPs. And the moment station is destroyed all teammates in vicinity receive something like 200-400BPs. IMO it would force players to attack and stay closer to the stations.

And the same rewards for defensive actions. Show the areas that give bonus points on map, like it's done with WZ caputre zones. Something like this.

20191027224601_1.thumb.jpg.90b555b8b8c9be268fd6727af3ef51aa.jpg

Because now there are matches where I don't see any urge/will to attack stations. Ppl prefer to camp and shoot. They need some reward for doing right things.

BTW, A1 point can be destroyed by shooting at it with RPGs from long distances. On the pic above I with red arrows marked directions. With that remark that on the left side where the park is attackers are under ocver of the concrete wall/fence and while they are shooting at station it's defenders who are forced to close the distance to be able to stop the shooting. For other maps are toher spots, but still sometimes it's the defending team who need to "attack" to prevent station from being destroyed from afar.

1 funny thing. What is the best weapon to destroy station? Not the rockets, not the artillery or bomb strike. Simple 12.7mm HMG. Each bullet deals from 7 to 14 dmg. For example grenade launcher of the IFV deals he same 14 dmg to the stations as the coaxial HMG. Stormbreaker deals 140 dmg. Qaudrocopter - 40 d,g. 1 C4 - 60 dmg. I think next time I'll try helidrone or Leviathan with HMG. If nobody can disturb u it's even faster than planting the charge.

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Hey Folks.

So Breakthrough has been the one game mode I've been really excited to play as I've been a long time fan of Battlefield's Rush Game mode (which obviously is what inspired WW3's Breakthrough.) I had some initial fears of how WW3's version of Rush would be implemented, the main concern being a simple copy & paste with little to no WW3 flare put into it, and so far for a first round pass some of those fears were put to rest. But, even with some fears being put to rest and some of the WW3 flare being brought into Breakthrough, I have found that some of my concerns did come to life along with some nightmares that followed in their wake. My current impressions of Breakthrough in it's initial PTE form is largely negative. However, before I go on about what I dislike about the game mode's current iteration, I want to at least point at the stuff that I do like about it. and what concerns of mine got put to rest.

And just as a fresh reminder...

I know this is just the first iteration of Breakthrough, not the final version.

---

What I like about Breakthrough so far

  1. Strikes can be earned/used - This was one of my main concerns going into Breakthrough as I was afraid it would be turned into another Infantry Only game mode. Nothing personal against People that like Infantry only game modes, but I didn't come to WW3 to just play Infantry only.
  2. Largely Linear Gameplay - Not a lot to say here other than; I'm happy the Devs largely have stayed true to the concept of the Attackers having to push through the Defender's lines with little to no flanking paths.
  3. Using old Warzone Large maps - Very happy to see old Warzone large Warsaw, Moscow, & Berlin being used for the most part for Breakthrough. It's nice to have fights in places we normally don't see or use very often in Warzone or TDM.

And that is where all my praise pretty much comes to an end unfortunately. As I said; My current impressions of Breakthrough in it's initial PTE form is largely negative. So, lets get on with my opinions of what the negatives are.

What I DONT like about Breakthrough so far

  1. Objective Spawns (Defenders) - Alright, this had to go at the top of the list without question. The spawn system for Defenders is hot garbage right now. Not once, but twice I've had games where I've died, spawned in immediately at the next objective set, and died within 1.5 seconds of respawning in to someone who just managed to be in the right place at the right time. I know this is two problems in one (I will get to the other half of this problem next.) But, the Spawning System for Breakthrough needs to be changed for the Defenders. However, this will need to be tailored to each map as obviously each map's layouts are completely different.
  2. Attackers Advancement - After the Attacking Team secures a set of objectives, the Attacking team should be forced to clear the captured sector of all remaining Defenders. Once all the Defenders are cleared out, the Attackers should then be forced to take a 45 second break to Repair, Resupply, Heal up, or whatever for the next attack. During this break the Match Timer should be paused  and the next sector treated as a out of bounds zone for the Attacking Team till the break timer is up. If the Attackers go out of bounds, they should have a limited 3 second window to get back in bounds (primarily to keep them from advancing too soon on the Defenders. Though obviously you will have players wait till the last few seconds to begin advancing early.)
  3. Bland Objectives - If the current objectives are just mere placeholders, then this part can be ignored. If they're meant to be the actual final versions of the objectives, then I think this needs to be changed to really make WW3's version of Rush different from Battlefield's version. Instead of destroying a Radio Station, we destroy a large storage of Artillery Ammunition and a Rocket Artillery Vehicle in one sector, then in the next we maybe have to secure war data from a server and destroy a Communication Tower, and etc etc. Stuff like that to make WW3's Rush have more of that WW3 feel over a simple Battlefield Copy/Paste. Maybe even tie it together with the Strikes where certain Objectives being destroyed allows certain Strikes to be unlocked. Take down a AA Station and Players can then begin calling in IFVs, AFVs, & MBTs. Take down a Jamming Tower and players can begin calling in Drones, and etc.
  4. 10 vs 10 - Easily one thing I really dislike about the game mode currently is the small player count. Now, I can understand that large amount of players can cause a large amount of lag. However, we have seen that 30 Players works fine for Warzone and we have seen that 40 Players, while it does impact performance, is doable even if much harder (performance wise) than 30 Players, and of course naturally final optimization won't happen till the game is nearing official release. However, while Breakthrough is on the PTE, I'd personally like to see how the game mode performs with 30 players instead of 20 to see just how much those extra 10 players can have a impact on both gameplay & game performance overall.
  5. Match Length - Matches feel too short currently even with the game being extended by the attacking team destroying the objectives. Personally I'd like to see the standard match length upped to 20 - 25 minutes. Really not a lot else to say here on this.
  6. Vehicle Choices for Teams - I really don't like that both Teams get to use the same non-Strike Vehicles. But, I think it should differ between the maps where the differences permit. Lets say a match takes place in Smolensk...Defenders (East Faction) get the BTR & Typhoon Command Vehicle. Attackers (West Faction) get the Wolverine & VAB Command Vehicle. By giving the Defenders the Spawn Vehicle, it can be a mobile/defensive alternative to the current Objective Spawns for the Defenders, and give them some extra firepower to match the Attackers. If the match takes place in Berlin...Defenders (West Faction) gets the Boxer & VAB Command Vehicle. Attackers (East Faction) gets the Bumerang & Typhoon Command Vehicle.
  7. Objective Placements - Much like Battlefield's Rush, WW3's Breakthrough objective are placed in some pretty strange places for being so important that a Team needs to fight & die for them. Some of them are fine, but others really take derp to another level on placement. Some of it I could even ignore if the Objective was just moved around a little bit. In the end though, I think the placements should be looked at again.

And I think that will do for now...I don't want to be overly negative or come off like I absolutely hate this game mode. But, I do seriously see some flaws in it's current design and do hope changes can be made to the point that People in the Battlefield Community start screaming at DICE to make Rush more like Breakthrough. I may either edit this post or post a reply if something comes to mind that I forgot to cover and I might do some suggestion posts related to Breakthrough as well. Till then though...

Have a good one folks!

Edited by Dunabar
Minor edit
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Here's my initial thoughts after playing BRE for about 2 hrs yesterday:

- 3D icons of destroyed objectives should disappear once destroyed. Have them reappear as spawn points for Attackers after both objectives are destroyed.

- If the attacking team managed to take over more than one sector, previous objectives still show up on the HUD and as spawn points for some reason. Get rid of them. They serve no purpose.

- Armed objectives should emit some kind of sound. Say what you will about WW3's supposed more realistic/tactical approach to gameplay than Battlefield's, but matches will be lost because some people won't notice the objectives were armed.

- Spawns need work. On Warsaw, on the first set of objectives, defenders have clear view on one of attacker's spawn points.

- After both objectives are destroyed, the Defenders have no time to set up defense and attackers can just sprint to the next set of objectives willy nilly. This makes defense much harder than it should be, in my opinion.

- As I expected, Strikes might be a problem in BRE. From my experience, UAV uptime is very high for both teams and I feel like UAV/Jammer/offensive strike setup will become the meta very quickly if no changes are made to the current system.

- Overtime. I'm not sure if it's already implemented or not (it took DICE a longer while to figure that out), but if the final objective of a set is armed and Attackers' timer runs out, the round should go into Overtime until the bomb is defused.

- Attackers can end up with very little time to do their job. Any time left from previous set of objectives should carry over to the next set. Let's say attackers get 10 minutes per set, in this case, if a set is taken after 6 minutes, the remaining 4 should be added for the next set, for 14 minutes total. Obviously there needs to be a limit to not allow Attackers to completely steamroll the Defenders.

Edited by Lauri455
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