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Ryuzaki

[Poll] Vehicle armors system.

Vehicle armor system.  

81 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you understand how the current vehicle armor system works?

    • Yes, It's clear as a day.
      21
    • I think I know how it works.
      41
    • I'm confused, I have no idea how it works.
      19
  2. 2. Do you think the system is working the way you expect how it should be working?

    • Yes, the system works as expected.
      26
    • Sometimes, but I am generaly confused.
      39
    • No, the system doesn't works as expected.
      16


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We want to hear what you guys think about the current vehicle armor system. Is it clear to you how the system works, and if it works as you expect it to work? Please answer those two questions and write a short post/opinion on what you feel about the current armor system:

1. How do you think it's working. 
2. Do you think it's working properly?
3. What would you change in the current system.


!Also, please refrain from double posting in this thread, we want it to be purely for our information - if you would like to discuss the topic deeper, consider creating another thread!

 

EDIT : We mean the additional armor you can choose in customization menu (Reactive, Nanoceramic etc.).

Edited by Ryuzaki

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IT is close to how it works in The Battlefield seriea. Shoot the tanks from the back, not In the front. Works for me! 

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I presume we are talking about chassis not the hull armor, right? If yes, then:

1.I think I know how it SHOULD BE working. 2.But as the game is in the development stage and something simply isn't working sometimes I'm generally confused.🥴

1.From my experience chassis armor should be blocking part of the incoming dmg. But what part? Sometimes it looks like it's blocking 1/2 sometimes 1/3. Is it the difference in how different armors react to RPG grenades and tank shells?

2. As there are no clear numbers on vehicle's HP bar u can't be sure. U can choose the most expensive set of armor but when u try to test u find that some parts simply do not work(hello, RPG nets on the rear). So now it isn't working properly because of bugs.

3. What would I change.

Currently when I want to get rid of enemy tank I take RPG, shoot the tank with HE grenade to trigger the APS, shoot with the tandem grenade the side armor(no problem to do it with x6 scope attached) and drop the Stormbreaker on the tank. 10 secs all in all.

Me personally would increase effectiveness of ERA chassis armor, so it would completely block incoming dmg from single stage RPG grenades and high caliber HE shells while being destroyed. So it would require more firepower to destroy tank when u r low in numbers. But the ERA armor(and its analogs) should cost no less than 500 without and 700 BPs with RPG nets. Why I think the chassis armor should be enhanced? Tanks are rly slow now. The speed increase when u press Shift button is unrecognizable, so if tank is attacked it has almost no chances to escape and thus it must be much more tough. So u would be able to call in relatively cheap tank with only thermal optics that can be relatively easy destroyed and expensive full packed tank that would be almost 2 times tougher and would bring the pain to enemy team if they wouldn't cooperate in attempts to destroy it.

Edit: And for non-explosive armor to block some % of damage dependant on what type of projectile it is. Like it is now.

If the question was about hull armor I have no problem with understanding how it works.

Edited by tynblpb
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I want more explantion on the different armor options and their damage reduction against RPGs and stuff like that. And turret armor thickness aswell 

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3 minutes ago, Salt Lord said:

I want more explantion on the different armor options and their damage reduction against RPGs and stuff like that. And turret armor thickness aswell 

Also the difference of effectiveness from RPG normal / Tandem vs different tank shells

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all we need is just:

proper items description

their stats

final stats for vehicle with these upgrades

stats description (if not very obvious)

 

because for now its not very clear what armor exactly does: does it block X% of income damage or block all damage (for few shots) or make rpg explode a little farther from the base armor or what? What difference between types of armor and so on - these are real questions from necomers

Edited by Atway
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It looks, that's work similar to body armor.


1) There are some areas on hull, which are protected. 

2) They are fully independent. You can destroy additional armor on one side of the tank, and the other will be completely full.

3) First depletes additional additional armor, then main HP. 

4) In other words, HE round has 0% armor penetration and AP has 50.

 

Does it work how I expect?

No, really. Kontakt-1 tougher than Kontant-5 (B3) in game. What is absurd.

Overall. BTK tank-vs-tank is TOO high. 9 rounds with looong reload. APFSD are weak and Guided Missiles are completely useless. 
RPG are more effective vs vehicles than tank gun. Nuff said.

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I understand how the system should work, but it feels very random.

I made a suggestion post a bit more than a month ago. Here are my suggestions for armor:

Change to shells/armored combat/MBTs balancing:
  • Replace FRAG by HE (T-72) and HESH/HEDP (Leo, Abrams, Challenger?). They become the default round. All are very good against infantry, but are useless against MBTs frontally (like 0 damage). This will force tanks to aim for sides/rear to do any kind of damage to the enemy tank.
    • HESH is better against armor and at all angles than HE
    • HEDP makes a bigger boom than HEAT and more penetration than HE. Just doesn't do the pen of HEAT or the boom of HE 
    • To compensate with the weaker HE of the T-72 compared to the other MBTs, it will be the only tank capable of firing "apfsds glm" wich should be renamed ATGM (aka remove glm from all other MBTs).
    • ATGM needs a buff in speed and damage, but a longer reload too.
  • Replace HE slot by HEAT. The round has very good AT damage, but less explosion.
    • Downside? HESH, HEDP, HE and HEAT do very poorly against ERA/Armor upgrades, so you either need to shoot sides/rear or destroy the ERA plates.
    • HESH, HEDP, HE and HEAT need to be especially powerful against light armor (aka hull breaking).
  • APFSDS is the only round that can reliably damage MBTs from the front. A stock tank should be killed in 2 side/rear shots or 4 front shots (except on turret cheeks I guess). This will force tanks to become distance strategic support as soon as the enemy also has armor, and position their hulls correctly when engaging.
    • APFSDS doesn't give a shit about ERA plates
    • APFSDS is the only round being affected by overprenetration, so it will take more APFSDS shells than HESH, HEDP, HE and HEAT to take down light vehicles
  • The block engine will have it's own health bar. Light damage will slow down the tank, and heavy damage will immobilize the tank for a few seconds. Maybe also track damage.
  • Please implement shell ricochet (remember HESH doesn't bounce)
  • Floors are usually poorly armored, so C4 should do some good damage even when it's on the ground (they will learn the power of IEDs)
 
Armor vs Armor damage should be increased in general, making tank vs tank engagements more defensive. Since your tank will be in a strategic movement battle with the enemy tank (trying to flank), your infantry will have more breathing space. Nothing is more annoying than two steamrollers in the middle of a cap point denying each other's infantry pushes because they can take so many shots before going down.
 
All these changes are aimed to make armor combat more enjoyable for both tankers and infantry, and also making a damage system that makes more sense.
 
It would also be great if tanks had specializations Eg: Abrams has the best gun, T-72 has the best armor and ATGMs, Leo is a jack of all trades, etc.
 
Also, we would need clearer armor schemes for tanks in game (maybe not armor values, but just simple "penetrates" "doesn't penetrate" - and the tank gets no damage if the round can't penetrate)
Edited by DustRaptor
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I feel like after 0.4 or 0.5, armor upgrades became somewhat inconsistent, therefor useless. Getting the best and most expensive armor in the game turns your tank into a bulldozer, which gets stuck on bushes, barrels and traffic cones. But even with those upgrades, you still die from  2 hits to your back side. I don't think armor works as intended currently. 

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It's not all about thickness. Armor covers different areas. If you don't want to be 2 hit by RPGs use an armor with rpg nets even better if it covers the rear. Paying attention to your health and armor is important for a longer run.

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46 minutes ago, Artaxiad300062 said:

Except those rarely work... 

Don't get shot by tandem. Protect your vehicles rear and be so on. Let's make sure we make a distinction between an armor problem and a user problem. 

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@Artaxiad300062, @NeoOrNeon.

Also, please refrain from double posting in this thread, we want it to be purely for our information - if you would like to discuss the topic deeper, consider creating another thread!

Edited by tynblpb

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4 hours ago, NeoOrNeon said:

Don't get shot by tandem. Protect your vehicles rear and be so on. Let's make sure we make a distinction between an armor problem and a user problem. 

You ***, the problem I am talking about is the fact those rpg nets rarely work as intended, have you used them personally,and know if they work properly or not? 

 

//Inappropriate language - Rozmo

Edited by Rozmo
//Inappropriate language - Rozmo

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6 hours ago, Artaxiad300062 said:

You ***, the problem I am talking about is the fact those rpg nets rarely work as intended, have you used them personally,and know if they work properly or not? 

 

//Inappropriate language - Rozmo

They work fine. Tandem is a dual charge so the RPG net only partially blocks it. Maybe that's what you are experiencing.

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On 10/29/2019 at 4:02 PM, DustRaptor said:

I understand how the system should work, but it feels very random.

I made a suggestion post a bit more than a month ago. Here are my suggestions for armor:

Change to shells/armored combat/MBTs balancing:
  • Replace FRAG by HE (T-72) and HESH/HEDP (Leo, Abrams, Challenger?). They become the default round. All are very good against infantry, but are useless against MBTs frontally (like 0 damage). This will force tanks to aim for sides/rear to do any kind of damage to the enemy tank.
    • HESH is better against armor and at all angles than HE
    • HEDP makes a bigger boom than HEAT and more penetration than HE. Just doesn't do the pen of HEAT or the boom of HE 
    • To compensate with the weaker HE of the T-72 compared to the other MBTs, it will be the only tank capable of firing "apfsds glm" wich should be renamed ATGM (aka remove glm from all other MBTs).
    • ATGM needs a buff in speed and damage, but a longer reload too.
  • Replace HE slot by HEAT. The round has very good AT damage, but less explosion.
    • Downside? HESH, HEDP, HE and HEAT do very poorly against ERA/Armor upgrades, so you either need to shoot sides/rear or destroy the ERA plates.
    • HESH, HEDP, HE and HEAT need to be especially powerful against light armor (aka hull breaking).
  • APFSDS is the only round that can reliably damage MBTs from the front. A stock tank should be killed in 2 side/rear shots or 4 front shots (except on turret cheeks I guess). This will force tanks to become distance strategic support as soon as the enemy also has armor, and position their hulls correctly when engaging.
    • APFSDS doesn't give a shit about ERA plates
    • APFSDS is the only round being affected by overprenetration, so it will take more APFSDS shells than HESH, HEDP, HE and HEAT to take down light vehicles
  • The block engine will have it's own health bar. Light damage will slow down the tank, and heavy damage will immobilize the tank for a few seconds. Maybe also track damage.
  • Please implement shell ricochet (remember HESH doesn't bounce)
  • Floors are usually poorly armored, so C4 should do some good damage even when it's on the ground (they will learn the power of IEDs)
 
Armor vs Armor damage should be increased in general, making tank vs tank engagements more defensive. Since your tank will be in a strategic movement battle with the enemy tank (trying to flank), your infantry will have more breathing space. Nothing is more annoying than two steamrollers in the middle of a cap point denying each other's infantry pushes because they can take so many shots before going down.
 
All these changes are aimed to make armor combat more enjoyable for both tankers and infantry, and also making a damage system that makes more sense.
 
It would also be great if tanks had specializations Eg: Abrams has the best gun, T-72 has the best armor and ATGMs, Leo is a jack of all trades, etc.
 
Also, we would need clearer armor schemes for tanks in game (maybe not armor values, but just simple "penetrates" "doesn't penetrate" - and the tank gets no damage if the round can't penetrate)

ya just like WarThunder  that will be great 

 

On 10/30/2019 at 2:07 AM, Artaxiad300062 said:

I feel like after 0.4 or 0.5, armor upgrades became somewhat inconsistent, therefor useless. Getting the best and most expensive armor in the game turns your tank into a bulldozer, which gets stuck on bushes, barrels and traffic cones. But even with those upgrades, you still die from  2 hits to your back side. I don't think armor works as intended currently. 

ya  The main battle tank should be threatened by other main battle tanks, not easily killed by the RPG, and the RPG should be used as the main weapon and strengthen the effect on the infantry. Limit RPG replenishment and increase RPG and other equipment switching speeds, there is no need to refill or remove warheads every time you switch

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