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tynblpb

[Weapon][Feature] Reduced sway for single-shot and burst fire modes.

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After reading filled with pain part of the post made by @HeiligeRobbe in Feedback on update 0.7 theme, here it is:

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Gunplay: Again this is something quite subjective but you have said multiply times that you want skill and accuracy to be decisive in a firefight but I wonder if this is the case currently. Of course my understanding of what is skilled and what not is subjective to a degree and maybe I am just bad. On short range I would say the gunplay is quite fine, but on longer ranges ... Recoil in WW3 is very! easy to control (especially if the random horizontal kicks some have issues with become replaced with something more predictable). Thus also on longer ranges you can happily hold M1 and spray all day. Recoil control skills don't play much of a role here because it is just so easy (again @tynblpb has thematized this in his barrel suggestions I think).

Trying to get a tap fire headshot on the other hand is on longer ranges a matter of luck depending on the sway. I really can't count anymore how often I held an angle, waiting for my enemy to peek and when he finally does my aim got kicked of by a random horizontal sway. This is absolutely annoying. This is by nature unpredictable and thus makes something which I consider skilled artificially difficult to the point where it is often the better option to take a gun with a large mag and just hold LMB on the approximate peeking spot. Eventually enough bullets will hit. Then on top strafing left and right has like no impact on accuracy. So again holding LMB together with A and D is very easy and the dominant strategy while going for accurate shots is made artificially difficult. That is not to say that battle rifles are too weak. On the contrary, they are even easier to control full auto than most ARs due to the lower RoF.

This holds for bolt action rifles too. Why go for the headshot, which is randomly difficult while going for a much easier body shot will most of the time give the same result? But differently it is hard for a very good sniper player to differentiate himself from a more mediocre one.

I have to admit that my preferred playstyle is to run a BR and thus anybody might say that this is just whining but my point is not that this playstyle is not effective or you cannot be successful with it (you absolutely can!). But in certain situations in a fight between two equally good players the in my opinion more skilled play is made artificially difficult while something not that skilled is made very easy. I would really like to hear what others think on this and directed at the devs: Is the way sway works currently going to stay and exactly what you want it to be like? I would propose to at least get rid of the strong horizontal deviation and include a pause while breathing out.

 

I came with absolutely artificial and thus mb controversial idea, that on other hand would more or less fix the oh so hated problem: Scope Swaying.

Idea: make that sway when ADS when ur fire mode is single or burst would be much less than it's when u r full-auto. On par with how it is when lying down or something like that. So ppl who would choose more complex shooting mechanic and not simple spray'n'pray would benefit from it.

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6 hours ago, tynblpb said:

Idea: make that sway when ADS when ur fire mode is single or burst would be much less than it's when u r full-auto. On par with how it is when lying down or something like that. So ppl who would choose more complex shooting mechanic and not simple spray'n'pray would benefit from it.

I mean it sounds kind of cool but to be honest the BTK for WW3 means burst fire and single shot aren't really that great. I can see them being effective at ranges above 70m, at which point the scope sway effect you suggest would come into play.

I'm not really keen on this, I have to say.

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I don't see people using burst and single fire enough, and that's a wrong idea, since weapons have actually reduced recoil and spread when in those modes. It's especially deadly if you have a good aim and play a battle rifle. Scar is a one-shot headshot in most situations and with single fire you can really use it on long range.

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The problem is inconsistency here. As you say, tap firing can be very deadly, especially with BRs and if you land headshots, but sometimes you aim on the head and suddenly the sway shifts your gun a pixel or two to the side and you miss.

It feels very satisfying if you land those shots but way too often in my opinion the game takes them away from you and it would have been better to spray half the mag because eventually you land enough hits.

In 0.8 the recoil reduction seems to be more pronounced and thus more worth it, but in 0.7 spraying is just better (even with an M417 and a 6x scope I would say spraying > tapping because the spray is so significant).

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I'm saying that changing the fire mode by using B actually changes how the weapon handles. Tapping with full auto selected doesn't work like this, but chancing the fire mode actually changes how the weapon fires - this is done so firing modes actually do something, not are just there because weapons have them :P

Also, since we've added the horizontal recoil slider that's separate from vertical now, we have to see how it pans out before making drastic changes, so let's see how it works after 0.8 hits Live

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I am absolutely aware of what you said and know the difference :P what I say still holds and is not really related to recoil and spread, though. I was referring to semi auto fire as well and not shooting single shots while in full auto mode.

 

Edit: I just went on an empty .8 server and while there is finally a sway reduction already when crouching and a further one when proning I still absolutely don't like the effects of the current sway. Maybe I am just really bad at countering it, I don't know but I just shot a series of bullets into a wall from like 40m away (I used my favourite gun the M417 with a dual role scope, the cobra grip, a medium barrel and the M417 compensator).

Doing a scoped spray was no issue at all. Trying to hit exactly the same spot more than once is of course difficult but absolutely doable if you have just slight recoil control. In my opinion it is way too easy to shoot a Battle rifle with a 5x scope in full auto.

In semi-auto hitting the same spot more than once was a pain in the ass. You try to counter the deviation of the sway and suddenly it changes direction and your counter movement just throws you off target. Or the speed changes or whatever. For me this is absolutely counter intuitive and makes hardly any sense because I would argue that a battle rifle with a medium scope is precisely what you want for a single fire tapping playstyle. But when it comes down to nail a difficult shot, like a headshot on 100m where you hold an angle and thus are already aiming at the enemy's peek(again this is what I think a BR with a medium scope is the more or less ideal choice for) the sway kicks you of target and spraying would have been much better.

But as the cherry on the cake not only spraying would have been way better but also using a 1x scope. Testing it on slightly higher ranges like 60m it was far far easier to hit the same spot again and again with my 1x secondary red dot sight than the 5x dual role scope, because it is not as much affected by the sway. To me this makes not much sense.

Overall this might sound much more like a rant than it is intended to. It is my personal opinion and a gameplay decision where I think is no real right or wrong as it comes down to personal preference to a large degree and maybe I am just to stupid to get around the sway how it is now. But it leads to some counter-intuitive situations. If this is how team imagines their game to be like I can hardly argue against someone else's preference.

Edited by HeiligeRobbe

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5 часов назад, Ragir сказал:

I don't see people using burst and single fire enough

I tried it, and must admit, switching is pointless now. Controlling recoil or even spraying with full auto is far more effective in most circumstances.
In WW3 you have enough ammo to be very "generous" with bullets to shoot. I remember, I had something, like 23-0 and still hadn't gone out of ammo.
I think, key hides there: in ammo count, and ammo consumption.

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6 hours ago, †FeuerEuphorie† said:

I tried it, and must admit, switching is pointless now. Controlling recoil or even spraying with full auto is far more effective in most circumstances.
In WW3 you have enough ammo to be very "generous" with bullets to shoot. I remember, I had something, like 23-0 and still hadn't gone out of ammo.
I think, key hides there: in ammo count, and ammo consumption.

Less ammo would probably make people use single fire / burst but you know.... last time

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