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KDP

New animations, What about gunplay?

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I saw the new animations, looks nice made me remember WW3.
Had fun when the game first started. Did they ever revert to early days of WW3?

Quit because they messed up the aim in the gunplay, and the TTK was always on the easy side but became even faster. 3 bullets out of AK and even the 4 bullets out of the HK416 was too fast for the game to not be who sees who first wins type game.

Also did they get rid of the call in spam? I poked my head back in on the free weekend and saw the free APCs on the snow map which were a bad thing. Free weekend game play was pretty bad with all the change in between Feburary and then.

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4 hours ago, KDP said:

3 bullets out of AK and even the 4 bullets out of the HK416 was too fast for the game to not be who sees who first wins type game.

3 bullets to body with no armor at close-mid range. In practice it takes a little more (range+armor+your aim+spread and so on). IMO gunplay and TTK are perfect

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We're happy with the current TTK, but balancing is a whole different game - there's a lot of variables when it comes to weapons and attachments, but even though we just had a quick balance pass a year ago it's still holding up ok. Once more weapons are in and the game is more finished, we'll have another balance pass to make sure things are ok.

We didn't want long TTK so you can't just tank bullets and use your aiming skills to win every fight, positioning and good movement are also a big part of it. The idea is that even the best player in the world will get rekt if they just move badly and get jumped. This means that people that aren't so great at pure aiming can still hold their own in a fight and be useful in matches.

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I like the current gunplay and ttk tho i think some guns have a hit too much horizontal recoil. Like the sig for example 

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17 hours ago, Ragir said:

This means that people that aren't so great at pure aiming can still hold their own in a fight and be useful in matches

=become a camper! :D

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On 1/22/2020 at 9:40 AM, Atway said:

=become a camper! :D

That's not being useful :P

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1 hour ago, Ragir said:

That's not being useful :P

tell that them, not me :D

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This question got me thinking about  gunplay in general. Do you guys plan to overhaul the shooting/recoil animation, too?  Most of the time people percieve the feeling of the guns more than the actual stats etc. Some better audio-visual feedback would be really nice.

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I just want another 7.62 (or equivalent) bullet hose that isn't just the MG5, intermediate or otherwise :p

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21.01.2020 в 10:28, Atway сказал:

IMO gunplay and TTK are perfect

IMO, is far not.

Honestly, making long barrel does less damage than short barrel, was the worst design decision, I have ever seen in shooters, even adding R8 in CS:GO was not as absurd.  Just reduce ADS time for short barrels, and increase for long - the simpliest way to differ TTK without changing DPS.  Same for reducing recoil from changing fire mods. It can be another bonuses, such as faster recovering aim point after burst, or reseting bloom per shot count. But we have just straightforward, absurd and unrealictic "direct recoil reducing".

TTK. On paper, it looks nice. But smaaaaall protection square of plates makes armor only randomly useful factor, that suddenly increasing TTK. Don't prove me wrong, I'm against high TTK, like in PS2. 4-6 BTK is enough for killing heavy protected soldier form close to far range with AR. Just make 5 plates in vest (chest, groin, rear and 2 side)

Headshots are really good now, 1-2 BTK is fair enough.

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3 bullets could be a fine TTK, if its to the head or from a more challenging act from the player then spraying 3 bullets into another player.
1-2 bullets for a head shot is a too easy. Most people can accidentally land 2 shots on the head, but head shots dont really matter in this game because you kill players before so fast and both TTK is before the human reaction time.

If you are talking about Planetside 2 you can have a low TTK of .2 seconds if you are good enough to land 4 head shots which is very possible with some guns.
On paper WW3s TTK is still bad. Every where but center of the chest is instant death with out a player having to aim or even try to play harder for better results.
It looks like they added random sway to the game to try and make it harder to insta kill players but it doesnt add challenge just lowers the skill ceiling.

WW3 is a game for casuals sadly. The main reason people were not happy with BF after BF1 was the dumbification for the consol crowed which made the games too casual. Was hoping WW3 would give us non casual players a game which wasnt all geared towards casual players.
BFV is adding more TTK which is good for the non casual players. Hopefully the next BF game which is probably modern war and will go back to not catering to casuals which I was hoping WW3 was going to do. I dont like giving money to EA but they have gunplay with out random sway same reason Im on CoD right now even with the fast TTK they have.

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42 минуты назад, KDP сказал:

On paper WW3s TTK is still bad. Every where but center of the chest is instant death with out a player having to aim or even try to play harder for better results.
It looks like they added random sway to the game to try and make it harder to insta kill players but it doesnt add challenge just lowers the skill ceiling.

Again with this nonsense.

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@KDP
I am bit confused, most of your numbers and examples are simply not true. And if you think headshots don't matter, try a BR. :D

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10 hours ago, KDP said:

3 bullets could be a fine TTK, if its to the head or from a more challenging act from the player then spraying 3 bullets into another player.
1-2 bullets for a head shot is a too easy. Most people can accidentally land 2 shots on the head, but head shots dont really matter in this game because you kill players before so fast and both TTK is before the human reaction time.

If you are talking about Planetside 2 you can have a low TTK of .2 seconds if you are good enough to land 4 head shots which is very possible with some guns.
On paper WW3s TTK is still bad. Every where but center of the chest is instant death with out a player having to aim or even try to play harder for better results.
It looks like they added random sway to the game to try and make it harder to insta kill players but it doesnt add challenge just lowers the skill ceiling.

WW3 is a game for casuals sadly. The main reason people were not happy with BF after BF1 was the dumbification for the consol crowed which made the games too casual. Was hoping WW3 would give us non casual players a game which wasnt all geared towards casual players.
BFV is adding more TTK which is good for the non casual players. Hopefully the next BF game which is probably modern war and will go back to not catering to casuals which I was hoping WW3 was going to do. I dont like giving money to EA but they have gunplay with out random sway same reason Im on CoD right now even with the fast TTK they have.

Pretty sure a lot of the bfv community hated the ttk increase

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12 часов назад, KDP сказал:

3 bullets could be a fine TTK, if its to the head or from a more challenging act from the player then spraying 3 bullets into another player.
1-2 bullets for a head shot is a too easy. Most people can accidentally land 2 shots on the head, but head shots dont really matter in this game because you kill players before so fast and both TTK is before the human reaction time.

If you are talking about Planetside 2 you can have a low TTK of .2 seconds if you are good enough to land 4 head shots which is very possible with some guns.
On paper WW3s TTK is still bad. Every where but center of the chest is instant death with out a player having to aim or even try to play harder for better results.
It looks like they added random sway to the game to try and make it harder to insta kill players but it doesnt add challenge just lowers the skill ceiling.

WW3 is a game for casuals sadly. The main reason people were not happy with BF after BF1 was the dumbification for the consol crowed which made the games too casual. Was hoping WW3 would give us non casual players a game which wasnt all geared towards casual players.
BFV is adding more TTK which is good for the non casual players. Hopefully the next BF game which is probably modern war and will go back to not catering to casuals which I was hoping WW3 was going to do. I dont like giving money to EA but they have gunplay with out random sway same reason Im on CoD right now even with the fast TTK they have.

Oh yeah. Now I have enough time to answer.

1-2 head BTK is pretty enough for military shooter between mil-sim and arcade. To be honest, only few helmets like VULCAN-5 can save it owner from 7.62x54 rifle catridge bullet.

BF3 has 4 BTK in body and 2 in head. Is this game casual?
PS2 has 5-20 BTK. Is this game casual? Ofc, it is. You can do nothing, you can sitting AFK, you can even ram your teammates, and still win. Only active player count on hex rules. More people=win.
Overwatch has long TTK. Is it casual? Oh yes. Random spread, hitboxes are larger, than graphic model, lots of autoaiming features. Even my ex-girlfriend, who played shooters first time in her life, built Dwarf's turret and did a lot of frags, because this turret headshots people.
Counter-Strike games have very short TTK. Like 1, rarely 2 bullets in head, and 3-5 in body. Are they hardcore? Oh yes.

If player learned ALL THAT HOLY RECOIL PATTERNS, and brainlessly runs across the battlefield, he receieves bullet in his head. Because he is not good hardcore player, only noob with burning butt. The hardcorness of this game to him is moving carefully, looking around and act with his team together

If there wasn't any skill ceiling in the game, there wouldn't be any screenshots, like this.

674020_screenshots_20191111210311_1.thumb.jpg.bbdabc7826206111ba960f7df04ad3c8.jpg

Definitely, there is no skill difference between 75-14 an 11-22 players (sarcasm).

Overall

Skill doesn't mean learn recoil patterns.
Hardcore doesn't mean to "hard to kill enemy player" especially "long TTK".

P.S. There are long TTK hardcore games, like UT or LawBreakers. Oh, and they haven't recoil patterns at all.

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2 часа назад, Salt Lord сказал:

Pretty sure a lot of the bfv community hated the ttk increase

Because SniperField became even more SniperField. Imagine, you need to land 7 headshots (M1907 SF) with your assault rfile against sniper, who oneshots you. On large empty 1x1 kilometer map (Ivodzima) with very few trenches and covers. Ofc, now in BF5 rules jungle carbine jerkers.

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So now I do have time for a longer answer as well. @KDP there was a spreadsheet posted in another thread which details the BTK for all armor classes and calibers [@Shimpo I hope it is okay if I post the link again in here, if not please delete it :)https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rHXtyvJKHxd77DjqccAA9ULRl2yQfMuQJ8JRMeR9RN0/edit#gid=0].

How do you come up with this 3 BTK story? It is just not true as you can see. Gutshots are a lot less frequent since the hitboxes have been updated which means that even with Polyethylen armor the BTK for the most common AR caliber is around 5-6 bullets if you are not going for a headshot. Claiming that headshots don't matter makes me literally scratch my hat. I run BRs most of the time. And it makes hell of a difference if I need 1 shot to the face or 3 to the body. And as @Salt Lord has pointed out the majority of the BF V community did not like the TTK change - including the majority of very good players.

Regarding the TTK I agree to @Atway I think it is pretty much perfect. 3x is nice headshot modifier which rewards headshots especially in a face to face battle where a face shot would neglect the helmet (if I am not mistaken).

Regarding the gunplay in general, I agree to the critique of Feuereuphorie to some extent. I enjoy the gunplay very much! But I think it would be even better without the mentioned decision of a lower base damage for longer barrels (is anybody using them on ARs, BRs, SMGs, MGs atm?). Firstly I wanted to agree as well to the critique on the lower recoil in semi-auto and burst mode but then on the other hand you could maybe create a story that the recoil is lower without a follow up shot and I thought bursts were designed (to some degree) to fire 3 bullets so quickly that the recoil is felt only after the last shot has been fired.

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On 1/21/2020 at 10:27 AM, Ragir said:

We didn't want long TTK so you can't just tank bullets and use your aiming skills to win every fight, positioning and good movement are also a big part of it. The idea is that even the best player in the world will get rekt if they just move badly and get jumped. This means that people that aren't so great at pure aiming can still hold their own in a fight and be useful in matches.

I believe this philosophy as well.

I do see players sometimes complain that fast TTKs means "whoever sees first, wins."

But... isn't that how it should be a lot of the time? Why should you be able to run into a completely open field with no cover and still win that gun-fight? And if someone shows up behind you and you fail to hear their footsteps... why should you be able to win that gun-fight?

If the players see each other at the same time and trade shots, the more skilled player should still win more consistently anyway, right? So I don't see "whoever sees first, wins" to be a big problem. It's still about skill, just a different type of skill than recoil/fire control. 

Just because someone is a great shot, doesn't make them a great player. Maneuvering the map and using assets are just as important (possibly more important).

Edited by DoctorMcBatman
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On 1/21/2020 at 3:35 AM, KDP said:

I saw the new animations, looks nice made me remember WW3.
Had fun when the game first started. Did they ever revert to early days of WW3?

Quit because they messed  Speed Test Scrabble Word Finder Solitaire up the aim in the gunplay, and the TTK was always on the easy side but became even faster. 3 bullets out of AK and even the 4 bullets out of the HK416 was too fast for the game to not be who sees who first wins type game.

Also did they get rid of the call in spam? I poked my head back in on the free weekend and saw the free APCs on the snow map which were a bad thing. Free weekend game play was pretty bad with all the change in between Feburary and then.

That's not being useful :P

 
Edited by zaekaleem

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