Jump to content
Kruzikal

A well tuned revive system design <HERE>

Recommended Posts

My ideas on a revive system

A few of my personal opinions:

1.       The advanced ballistics system in world war 3 is a feature that enhances immersion.

2.       Adding a willy-nilly revive system, I my opinion, would completely destroy the immersion created by said feature.

a.       Showing you where you got hit, and then someone reviving you, would just be silly and make it less realistic and immersive.

So, instead of having to add one that doesn’t compliment the other, why don’t we build the revive system off of the ballistic system? I am a developer and a programmer of sorts, and this is how I imagine it working, and how it could work well.

We have a built in ballistic system here that provides rich context on the data of where our bodies were impacted with incoming rounds, as well as the damage that occurred in a specific area.

As most players have said, headshots and vitals should be an immediate cannot revive. However we can go much deeper into this, and beforehand, I would like to say that I view shots placed center mass that impact the spinal region as vitals- CANNOT REVIVE.

Each body part should have a standard treatment time built into the code.

If 100% of the damage caused in killing the player is dealt to the leg, that would be a 10 second revive

If 100% of the damage caused in killing the player is dealt to the arm, that would be a 5 second revive.

These base line measures will play in further in a second.

However, if 25% of the damage to the player is to the leg, and 75% of the damage is to the arm, than the combined percentage of time would be added (25% of damage to leg = 2.5 seconds/75% of damage to leg = 3.75 seconds), MEANING the total time to revive the player would be 6.25 seconds.

This could then be extrapolated to multiple body parts (Hands, feet, shins, thighs, forearms, upper arms, etc), ultimately creating a unique time value for how long it takes to revive each player (With a potential max set into the code), depending on the wounds to the body part. This is extremely doable in my opinion by just BUILDING ON TOP OF the fantastic hit detection and ballistics built into the game. This aids in immersion because you’re encouraging your players to take active, risky decisions on the battlefield, rather than act like a bot that can just expect the same scenario over and over again.

Things like concussion damage, and explosion damage would have to be brain-stormed a bit more with your design team.

Adding any further treatment IMO, such as Arma ACE would be FAR too complicated, and I think implementing it this way alone would be a fantastic addition to the game. It’s not complicated, it can be integrated relatively easy into the game, and be taken out or re-defined just as easy.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally prefer reviving teammates but nothing like BF games. judging how fast paced the gameplay is, I doubt it would be beneficial to have revive. It would prevent tickets bleeding but then everybody would want to be a medic. So maybe its a good thing we don't have it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There should be no instances where a player is being shot (such as headshots and bullets to center-mass) that warrant an instant kill, because players are going to hit "vitals" by complete accident, rather by luck than by judgement. So essentially you're just counting on luck to see if your squadmate can be revived. 
Players aren't aiming for the head or vitals at distance with automatic weapons, they are just simply trying to see if they can hit you at all. How would you feel if you were taken out and couldn't be revived by your friend because some guy got lucky with where he hit you at 60 meters? Adding treatment time based on the part you hit is a good answer though, this is absolutely the right way to go about it.
The simple fact is that this game needs revives, BAD. You're just stuck in a meat grinder all day and dying is the same process over and over, and every life is the same. I agree that this is a good change, and mostly a good way to go about it, except for the "Immidiate cannot revive" which is just simply not ok.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"There should be no instances where a player is being shot (such as headshots and bullets to center-mass) that warrant an instant kill, because players are going to hit "vitals" by complete accident, rather by luck than by judgement. So essentially you're just counting on luck to see if your squadmate can be revived."

I believe that is the glory of this revive system, it's not supposed to be guaranteed! It's unique and random, That's what makes it immersive :) 

But thank you for the kind words, really. I love feedback.

You're the first person i've seen that doesn't like the idea of permadeath. Why is that? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe, the essence of immersion is controlled realism. And the realistic nature of war is that when you get shot, at the average range of engagements that occur in modern warfare, it is truly random, shots are hardly placed well when in unpredictable combat. I say that in confidence from my time overseas. 

Just trying to understand you as an individual in the giant gamer family, are you against the more realistic fashion and would like the more arcadey style, or would you prefer more realism?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Snake XT said:

I personally prefer reviving teammates but nothing like BF games. judging how fast paced the gameplay is, I doubt it would be beneficial to have revive. It would prevent tickets bleeding but then everybody would want to be a medic. So maybe its a good thing we don't have it.

I can see that. I just think when we finally see the 32 vs 32 larger scale, combined arms maps we will start to feel a heavy need for these things, and it may pay off well as the larger maps would naturally be more slow paced. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Kruzikal
I respect your desire to have a realistic and immersive experience in that regard, but its just balance, and fairness is the most important thing. Counting on the roll of a dice is really not what a video game should shoot for... pun intended.
After putting 24 hours in, I can say that every life is pretty much the same, there is absolutely zero squadplay in effect, and relying on RNG to save your team mate is the wrong answer here, and I think that is some fact. I really hope you can understand where I'm coming from here.
Having treatment time based on injury is brilliant, and is a total must have. At the end of the day, we must realize this is a game and this sort of "randomness" can be controlled, and we shouldn't let luck of the draw destroy our experience.

To answer your question, permadeath is a cycle, a loop where you get stuck and spend loads of time in a menu, where once you die, you get frustrated because there is nothing that can be done. You must now spawn in to a point, run 150 meters, and die once again, perhaps to a tank this time, and you get reset again, knowing there can be nothing done.. Again, again, and again. Maybe if you could spawn on teamates and get back into the fight it wouldn't be so unbearable, but we're stuck with a whole lot of nothing right now. Dying is the same every time, and life is no different. Death will leave the same outcome no matter if you're alone or surrounded by fiteen teamates. Being in a squad and sticking together doesn't matter because of the repetitiveness in spawn, run, die, spawn, run die.

Where is the teamplay dynamic?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AND limit the revive to only squadmates... would enforce tactical squadgamplay so much....

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that the revive only when no vital parts were wounded not only works and has sense but would aswell been balanced. 

Head and chest are very protected in this game. Sooting a guy in the arms or legs requires way less bullets to kill than shooting him in the chestplate. 

So either you die absorbing many bullets and maybe have time to react, or you die quickly but can be revived.

Of course people can die quickly while flanked because of no plate protection. But that would be good. To make very rare to revive a flank-kill won't nerf flanks too much since it's already hard enough to comeback in a match already.

Of course can also take some tuning. Like the player can survive an headshot thanks to his helmet. So maybe make the player would be unrevivable after he got 2-3 bullets in vitals or one not-protected headshot.

And players should know if a teammate is revivable or not immediately when they fall.

Edited by Angelo542024
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's too early to think about revive systems I think, very few squads are working as effectively as they could be. If players learn how to squad effectively and the devs improve the squad system, the need for revives goes away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Cral Few squads are working together effectively because there is no effectiveness to be made as a squad, what are the benefits? There are no revives or squad spawns. What is the difference between your squadmates and the rest of your team? You might as well be playing alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i like that idea and it supports Teamplay.
And there is no RNG involved, maybe if you count weapon Accuracy but i would exclude that. Thing is, if you do a lucky Headshot. Congrats, you were lucky. If you manage to do those all the time. Damn, you're badass!
It needs Skill or time to hit vital parts. That's a decision you have to make. Time vs. Precision.

Also i wouldn't limit it to Squad Members. I understand this thought but i would prefer to limit it to a Gadget or something. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a revive system would be ok and your If statements are a great way of it. NEVER have an instant revive. Depending on the amount of damage received is significant and if the round was let us say a .50 cal would also need to be implemented. Just because you got shot in the leg doesn't mean you can still live it was dealt by a something that massive.  I believe with players points it should have a correlation with squads but should not be LOCKED to just squad members, maybe add a small extra time?

 

@Kruzikal

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I kinda wanted a revive system, but then figured it would be like majority of other shooters. When you cannot be revived you value your life a bit more and are more careful.

 

Maybe if you receive the majority of your damage in your limbs, maybe then. Otherwise I would say nay.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe consider something like Warface's revive system. If the player wants to wait around for it they can but they can also hop back to the deploy screen if they don't want to wait around. Also some game types do better with reviving that others. Domination isn't so bad but in a deathmatch type of game you don't really want to wait for a revive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

Dam son you thought way to much about this lol. it was a entertaining read. but I just want revives to be Squad only that takes 5 seconds. i feel 3-10 seconds respectively is to long and to short to be worth doing. it would slow down gameplay way to much than it already is which I like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel it would be way simplier just for the "cannot revive thing" place if u get killed by a c4 car & drone, Tank weapons, grenades, airstrikes, headshots in general, mines and c4.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea also squad only yes please ! But... with that ppl will get more reckless and make game a bit faster phased. While now the game makes you play more tactical, check corners, move slowly and with company. I'm not too sure if I would like a revive system ... there been times that your idea would be amazing! But I don't want the game to become a run and gun like rambo. I wish the game to stay slow as is. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This needs to be added asap. a shooter without the possibility to revive wounded mates lacks teamwork and playfun.

try to add a buddy revive system like in pubg or bf5, in case the downed mate gets a headshot or got melee killed there isnt a way to revive but for all other should be possible.

its also an idea that once you got revived you cant get full life anymore (100hp) and you can be revived only once per life (prevent medic trains)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personnaly i had great fun playing with my buddies, had the ammo pack myself, one guy had the seringes and the last one the health pack.

If you don't have the possibility to be revived you tend to be more careful, always keeping your eyes on your life  because it can make such a difference in a firefight.

I think that it's giving a more "tactical" vibe to the game and i'm loving it !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They could copy rRainbow six sieges system.

In that game your character has a 100 hp with an extra 20 hp for a "down but not out" stage.

if you recieve enough damage to kill you ( 100 hp depleted) bot not enough to surpass the additional 20 HP  , you get "downed". While " downed " you bleed out but can drag yourself towards teammates ( bleeding out faster in the process) so they can revive you with a 5 second long animation. 

After that you stand up with 50 Hp and you no longer posses that 20 hp buffer ( if you die a second time you have to respawn).

Now this system still allows for Headshots to be rewarded as an instant kill ( as their damage exceeds that 120 hp threshold)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...