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SecondJaBox

Remove Grey Dot

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I would suggest to remove that liitle dot in the middle of screen. It is unrealistic, it makes it way to easy to just spray and hope for the best and it makes the laser a bit usless.

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Agreed.  Conversely, please add some sort of reticle to the stupid Drone Robot perk so I can see where it's aiming.

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1 hour ago, SecondJaBox said:

I would suggest to remove that liitle dot in the middle of screen. It is unrealistic, it makes it way to easy to just spray and hope for the best and it makes the laser a bit usless.

The problem with removing it is some players will use third party software to add a crosshair and gain an advantage.

Edited by Cral
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yeah people will use third party software or a expo marker anyways. My monitor even has a crosshair function so you cant detect that.

It's knida needed for people to get their bearing on the screen especially with big monitors like mine where I cant see the edges while playing. IRL you would know where you are looking at since you are looking at it but on screen it you personally arent oriented correctly like you would be irl.

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There are cheats and exploits for just about everything in gaming, that doesn't mean you have to go to the lowest common denominator and turn every game in to tick-tack-toe for potato children that can't even wipe. Cheaters never win, as their approach is never earned through honest effort and skill -- at most they imbalance and spoil games and that is very rare... 

That said I'd like to see the dot removed by default as well, let cheaters have to make the effort to cheat, put ugly cartoon reticules on their screens. I don't care about how they get their skill-less cheat kills, I care how I get mine, and I'd like to do it with more immersion and realistic use of the game's more realistic aiming machinery, then a goof-ball arcade reticule thank you very much!

 

Edited by Hoak
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Also, if we remove the dot, it will be much harder to mark objectives. I think 1-pixel dot is fine.

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39 minutes ago, weedtime said:

Also, if we remove the dot, it will be much harder to mark objectives. I think 1-pixel dot is fine.

 

Can't mark with the dot anyway because you'll be pressing X hundred times. I always use the scopes or drones zoom to mark, otherwise the enemy is gone before it finally marks. 

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look at CSGO, cheaters do win and are winning. Pro CSGO players have to have cheaters on their teams to be competitive because that's just the way pro CSGO is. If both teams are pretty equal but the other team is using wall hacks to get that prizemoney then they will.


Competitive skilled players would be put at a dilemma, be at a disadvantage to some times common glitch exploits/cheats or fall behind. Even if they dont want to exploit fr cheat they are kinda put into that position.

I think the game looks better with out it but there's too much issues and problems for players who want to be competitive. It might not matter to non competitive players, but if a competitive player is put at a disadvantage and dies from it, it will hurt the game experience for them and just not matter in the end when every one starts cheating whether they want to or not..

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8 hours ago, Cral said:

The problem with removing it is some players will use third party software to add a crosshair and gain an advantage.

or you know...some clear tape and a marker....

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11 hours ago, weedtime said:

Also, if we remove the dot, it will be much harder to mark objectives. I think 1-pixel dot is fine.

There are plenty of other options to mark the objective. An other menu, do it with the map or just make the area around the dot bigger.

 

 

15 hours ago, TZoningHard said:

yeah people will use third party software or a expo marker anyways. My monitor even has a crosshair function so you cant detect that.

It's knida needed for people to get their bearing on the screen especially with big monitors like mine where I cant see the edges while playing. IRL you would know where you are looking at since you are looking at it but on screen it you personally arent oriented correctly like you would be irl.

Just because other people will use an unfair advantage it shouden't be an ingame feature. My monitor has also a build in crosshair but it's just no fun to use it (tried in cs:go). If people want to do that and destroy their experience it still wont make them good players.

/multiquote

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We'll be taking a look at this dot, it's actually a bug turned a feature and the plan is to make it more of an area, not a single pixel. This would still let people mark stuff, request gadget use and use packs, but also wouldn't be useful while aiming.

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35 minutes ago, Ragir said:

We'll be taking a look at this dot, it's actually a bug turned a feature and the plan is to make it more of an area, not a single pixel. This would still let people mark stuff, request gadget use and use packs, but also wouldn't be useful while aiming.

Its funny how many bugs you turned into features haha. I think the dot should stay the way it is.

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22 hours ago, Tweak said:

Its funny how many bugs you turned into features haha. I think the dot should stay the way it is.

 

Agreed. It`s good the way it is. Just need to improve marking itself :)

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On 12/6/2018 at 8:06 AM, Ragir said:

We'll be taking a look at this dot, it's actually a bug turned a feature and the plan is to make it more of an area, not a single pixel. This would still let people mark stuff, request gadget use and use packs, but also wouldn't be useful while aiming.

I hope your team will do some diligence and reconsider. First and foremost all HUD elements break depth cues in games, and reticules are the worst offenders -- I did an in depth article on this and all the research on it decades ago for GDMag, here's a summery extract from a draft I still have laying around:

Quote

The mechanisms of visual fusion and stereopsis do not apply beyond 50 feet in the real world and don't apply at all in flat anamorphic/panamorphic projected 3D games.... In lay English we don't have binocular 3D depth perception beyond 50 feet in the real world or at all in games; but all the monocular vision cues for distance depth perception do apply in games: Relative Size, Interposition, Linear Perspective, Aerial Perspective/Relative Color, Light & Shadow, Texture Gradient, and Movement Parallax...

When a 2D overlay is placed on a 3D game screen it causes you to shift your focus to an object with no apparent depth cues, that in fact has no relative depth to the game world, and back (and forth) to the game; you brain can't properly fuse this information and the game looks flatter and is less immersive for it. 

Here's one illustration; even though the Developers were aware of the effect, and have done an excellent job of minimizing all Raven Shield HUD assets by adding alpha transparency, and that the RS HUD occupies less screen real estate than many realism games -- notice the difference of playing with the HUD toggled off:

Larger HUDs make this difference even more immediately apparent but even the smallest 2D overlay do the same amount of damage in breaking depth cues, and making the game less immersive... Game Publishers know this, and this is why they typically post images (especially for print press) of their games HUD-less; here's an example with BF2:

In either case you can make a more revealing comparison by viewing the images full-screen and swapping them, but the effect is vastly more dramatic 'in-game' where your brain is constantly using motion parallax to build the perception of depth...

You can try this experiment in games like BF by typeing "renderer.drawHud 0" in your console to turn off all HUD assets... If you're used to (and prefer) iron sights,  you'll be surprised how little this costs you in the way of your in game performance and in fact will often improve it; what may surprise you is how much more immersive and 'you are there' the game will feel sans HUD.

Game capability is well past the point where all immediate HUD elements, except perhaps the message menu and console can be totally eliminated or only be drawn on the screen in context sensitive manner with no consequence or negative impact on game-play. Most that make the effort will find game-play not only more realistic, and immersive; but the removal of the HUD (where everyone has the same limitations) will add new depth to game-play they have been seeking and not finding.

 
Reticules are worst case offenders because of their position; they're at the center of player focus, which creates the perception of the most relative motion and depth-cue abruption.
 
Again, as far as cheats and cheating are concerned, someone can always put a better reticule on the screen then whatever might be the default by many means and have an advantage -- mitigating weapons off-aim accuracy and handling is a much better way to manage this.
 
If a reticule becomes the default for the game, I hope The Farm 51 will consider a 'Realism Mode' (not to be confused with what gets called 'Hard Core Mode' on so many arcade/action shooters) for WW3 that eschews hand-holding features and aids.
Edited by Hoak
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14 hours ago, Hoak said:

'Realism Mode'

For now, press F10 to toggle HUD - it's really fun to play like that for me personally.

We will take into account your expertise when redesigning the HUD, thanks for your feedback.

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15 hours ago, Ragir said:

For now, press F10 to toggle HUD - it's really fun to play like that for me personally.

We will take into account your expertise when redesigning the HUD, thanks for your feedback.

For now even 'F10 Realism Pretend Mode' is impractical as I can't join anything but random, respam, death mash servers... What's with that? And it's not my expertise, I can't take any credit for it, it was from DARPA and U.S. Navy Simulator design publications...

Edited by Hoak
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I would love to play without most of the HUD. For me it is more important to be immersed in the game, than to have all of the advantages of 100% information. But I think there will be different opinions on that. Maybe a customizable HUD would be an option? Giving the player the option to turn components on/off.

I would play like this:

Heath status: on. A sound (moaning) and visual indicator (tunnelvision) would be a good alternative. But as long as that's not really in the game, I need a health bar. Coolest would be if I could only do a quick health check by pressing a key, so only showing the indicator then.

Ammo: off. Just keep count, it helps you focus on what you are doing (and is what soldiers do in real life as well). Even works with machine guns as long as you fire bursts (and count them).

Chat: off. I would like a command and control system (keybinded) with some simple commands which will be played in voice audio. No need to show it on screen. 

Map/bearings: off! But... it would be great to be able to bring up a dynamic map from a PDA on the wrist, left hand side. Battlefield management systems are becoming a common thing in real life. Maybe also integrate a basic command and control system into that! 

Match info: off. Would be nice if some basic info is provided via 'radio'/voice audio situation updates, giving kill rate updates every 5mins or so. And display that info on the PDA!

Grey dot: off.

Edited by Shr!ke
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I was a no reticle dude for a long time but I don't want to be disadvantaged by not having a reticle when fighting against people cheating and getting away with it. Pretty much pushes me and other competitive players to cheat or risk falling behind. I don't want to cheat it lessen my enjoyment and sense of accomplishment but also knowing that people are doing better then me by cheating and getting away is way worse.

 

 

 

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I haven't met a single cheater in my 30 hours of playing. And what do you think that dot is doing. Just because someone has an ugly crosshair on their screen doesn't mean he is automaticly better then you. Mapknowledge, movement and prediction is so much more important then pure aiming aspecially then noscoping.

The Dot shoud get removed and not turned into something else. There will be a solition for the spotting problem.

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Quote

I was a no reticle dude for a long time but I don't want to be disadvantaged by not having a reticle when fighting against people cheating and getting away with it. Pretty much pushes me and other competitive players to cheat or risk falling behind. I don't want to cheat it lessen my enjoyment and sense of accomplishment but also knowing that people are doing better then me by cheating and getting away is way worse.

Let it go, it's a game! Cheaters will always find a way to have an advantage. You will always fall behind them. You will also fall behind people with no life, who game for 20hrs per day. Do you really care about that?

Why make the game less good to take one very minor advantage away from cheaters? If we follow your reasoning to the extreme, we should also implement wallhack, aimbot and the screwed up visuals (as discussed in other topic) for everyone.

Reporting hacks/cheats is good. Even guys trying cheats are a good thing (in a way...). It will help the devs find a way to block cheats as much as possible. I think that's what the test-period should be about. But design suggestions not based on how cool/awesome/fun they are, but solely on how competitive they are towards possible cheaters… are not the way to go (IMO).

I don't want to turn this into another cheating topic… but I just want to add that I don't think there are that many cheaters. The only cheat I'm pretty sure of that is being used is an aimbot or some visual hack to making spotting quicker. In most deathmatches there are one or two players with extreme 50/3 K/D ratio per match that I just cannot accept as the result of being awesome players. Most other guys are just very, very good.  Grey dot on/off is not going to change anything in both cases. Remember, the player base is getting very small... so the guys who are playing, really play a lot... Oh and take your latency into account. At the moment I'm playing on mediocre WIFI, which puts me at a disadvantage... that will be cable soon, but for now I just take it into account when looking at the scoreboard.

Edited by Shr!ke
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10 hours ago, Shr!ke said:

Let it go, it's a game! Cheaters will always find a way to have an advantage. You will always fall behind them. You will also fall behind people with no life, who game for 20hrs per day. Do you really care about that?

Why make the game less good to take one very minor advantage away from cheaters? If we follow your reasoning to the extreme, we should also implement wallhack, aimbot and the screwed up visuals (as discussed in other topic) for everyone.

Well said, the game design assumption that mitigating trivial cheating is more import then game quality is a voyage to the bottom of the barrel, and game design for the lowest common denominator; the ultimate turn of this is as anyone could be cheating and circumventing cheat protection any time, so this should be prevented by not allowing anyone to play the game ever! O.o

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On 12/6/2018 at 4:48 AM, TZoningHard said:

look at CSGO, cheaters do win and are winning. Pro CSGO players have to have cheaters on their teams to be competitive because that's just the way pro CSGO is. If both teams are pretty equal but the other team is using wall hacks to get that prizemoney then they will.


Competitive skilled players would be put at a dilemma, be at a disadvantage to some times common glitch exploits/cheats or fall behind. Even if they dont want to exploit fr cheat they are kinda put into that position.

I think the game looks better with out it but there's too much issues and problems for players who want to be competitive. It might not matter to non competitive players, but if a competitive player is put at a disadvantage and dies from it, it will hurt the game experience for them and just not matter in the end when every one starts cheating whether they want to or not..

where u get this ur so called "fact" that pro players would need cheaters in team or they would cheat for prize money...few invidual cheaters at pro scene dont make rest of them cheater. do u even realize that its impossible to cheat in lan events without getting caught, there is all the time somebody watchin what u are doing, sure online games got some prizemoney pools but those are so small that pro teams dont even care about those, all the prizemoney pools are in lan events what they care about becouse those are so mutch bigger :D

i can say instantly u got no idea what is skilled player or that u would even know what is competitive gaming :D

Edited by Dx2

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@Dx2

Its a industry trend to cheat and its is very possible to cheat at lan events. People litterally do it all the time and every once and a while they get caught. Also these events dont want controversy so they keep it under wraps and dont rehire the judges that call out cheating.
 

Not every one cheats but a shit load do and they get away with it. Lan events have their cheaters and any one can just youtube to see examples of people getting caught at tourneys after being in the scene for a while.

Its truth and fact, they are still good players to get there but there are also cheaters at lan's

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