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TZoningHard

Spoting system is a issue

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Might be very unpopular view but I very much dislike the marking system.

People might like it since it make the game easier for them but its a real detriment to the game.

 

I really hated how the game was about shooting at doritos in BF/Planetside 2 and dumbed down experience to where it was giving you a hand out and you did not need to actually look around.

You see a diamond you just shoot at it instead of the person and a decent times it shows though wall like ESP wall hacks which I dont like the principle of.

 

Spotting is just too strong and hurts the fun of the game. I'm just spamming my spot button so much instead of playing the game. Its not fun but its super effective.

 

A system is welcomed by me to point out enemy's to others but shooting at "doritos" is a big no and really hurts the enjoyment of the game as it becomes a point and click on the UI adventure.

 

People might say that snipers would be a issue but the is a limited amount of locations you can figure out where they are shooting from and then wouldn't it be better if the area was known of where the sniper is then giving the player a hand out.

 

I think the spotting and marking vehicles is good but players should not be a things. I am surprised not many of the realism/immersion players are up more upset about this. Its pretty immersion breaking even for me to be shooting at red diamonds all the time.

 

Wasn't a issue will now since it was onsies and twosies before .3 make marking easier. Im even getting marks in hipfire 100m away and not that near the center of my screen now.

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Just like your squad leader post this seems to me like very well thought through proposal. I love Bf3 but often it really turns into shooting enemy markers and that kills a lot of the immersion in my opinion. Having a system of marking the general direction/area from which you got shot or where you did spot an enemy would be prefereable.

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Make a poll! It does wall hack a bit if you're the one tracking a person through obstacles. Needs to be fixed not exactly removed. 

Spotting is supposed to replace party chat call outs for people who can't or are not in a party chat with their entire team

Could be reduced to squad only as well as a wall hack nerf though. 

Edited by Aerros

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I would greatly like it to be at least just for squads.

Also had a Idea to move spotting without a gadget to the compass system and move that down to the bottom so its more easily visible.

You mark some one and then every one in the squad gets a azimuth to their location. Then you can have a area marking with gadgets that can be for the whole team.

 

Much more inline whit a realistic aspect of calling out the direction of the enemy and removes the very ESP nature by a lot and along with the screen clutter.

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Initially we wanted only drones to be able to spot enemies and vehicles (like in a real life), but later we decided that everyone should be able to do it as it's a big part of a team / squad play and in most ocasions it's rather hard to persuade someone on your team to pick a hornet so he can spot for you. We may revert this change though, I will speak about it with people at the office - don't hold your breath though :P.

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I mainly use it for selfish reasons, makes shooting people a lot easier, if a they peak a corner you get a bit of a heads up. Its really OP right now on Smolensk and in situations where it glitches though walls

I mark tanks for teamplay reasons, but its not that effective. Im more ok with drone spotting but when every one spots and has ESP it really dumbs it down.

A lot of the time if i want to alert a team mate to a enemy that I can see I just shoot the direction and it works well that way.

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We could think about making marked enemy visible only in the proximity of some sort - this would make sense gameplay wise but I'm not sure about that.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ryuzaki said:

We could think about making marked enemy visible only in the proximity of some sort - this would make sense gameplay wise but I'm not sure about that.

In BF2142 3Dspot rombs were visible within the 150m range. Taking into consideration that average distance between CPs was 200-300meters I think 2/3 of distance between CPs as 3Dspot range should be enough. For each map it will be correspondingly different range. Again, if it is possible to implement.

Thus, mostly only assaulting troops, that are in direct firefight, will see 3Dspot icons, but snipers who are far behind will have to rely on their own eyes.

Edited by tynblpb

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I don't think it would be too hard to implement. Although, I am not sure how much time we got to implement new mechanics instead of fixing what's already in there. And believe me, list of features which are fast and easy to implement is so big right now, that we, unfortunately, have to prioritize every each of them.

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I've barely been playing and had no idea we could spot without a drone. This is pretty upsetting, as there's already very little reason to bring drones considering First Aid Kits are meta. Please revert the change.

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I agree with the fact that it is a very powerful tool, and that it gives you a big advantage but enemies can do just the same.

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Well it not fun when both sides are just throwing nukes. Its not a balance issue its a is fun and engaging issue.

One thing that always let me down about BF and Planetside 2 is that the game/shooting was dominated by dorito's and esp minimaps.

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Spotting in this game is awful. You can spot through smoke thus making the item completely useless. I'd rather see it removed and let players communicate enemy positions through chat.

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A less powerful option would be to allow players to mark a spot rather than an actual enemy, so you can inform friendlies of the general enemy direction/position without being able to pinpoint them and track their movement. I'd prefer voip but then Battlefield has voip and no fucker uses it.

 

On 1/2/2019 at 1:03 PM, Grey Wolf Jack said:

I've barely been playing and had no idea we could spot without a drone. This is pretty upsetting, as there's already very little reason to bring drones considering First Aid Kits are meta. Please revert the change.

I tried out drones recently and they can actually be really useful in an enemy push, I left mine sat about 100 metres up and spotted every enemy before they could get in position while my team just lined them up and gunned them down the moment they peeked.

 

I'm not sure if they do this already but a nice use of drones could be to provide very short range radar directly underneath its position, so if you're anticipating a push from a particular path you can float a drone up there and get minimap information  or markings as an early warning.

Edited by Cral

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The issue with gadget drone is that you dont have health or ammo ect.

Once we get tiered gadgets and can carry more then one the drone will be more viable to pick which is good. Needs more limitations since its hard to counter being that small and able to fly way up there.

A closer range and height ceiling would be fair if you are able to carry it with a health gadget.

 

Having a less powerfull spot system for players would be best. Something to replicate call outs and possible use the compass system. I would rather it not show people on map since that is cheese.

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As important as ammo/med packs are, I sometimes run without them as you can find them all over the place. If the drone was a strong tactical item (maybe give it thermals or some other buffs?) then it could definitely be worth foregoing the packs and taking the drone instead. It'd be nice if the drone had more range too, that way you could spot from relative safety, in fact it could make a really good sniper gadget then.

 

Can you disconnect/reconnect with drones? I haven't tried it.

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6 minutes ago, Cral said:

Can you disconnect/reconnect with drones? I haven't tried it.

Yes, and if they get jammed they will keep flying as if they were DC'd player.

We might not have to forgo ammo/meds devs said they were looking into doing tier gadget that you can carry multiple of.

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I agree, that shoting doritos isn't much fun, also game teaching you to spam [x] instad of using eyes, isn't ideal.

In the original design, I wanted players to be able to leave an "in world" marker (not marking players but an area). In this design, gadget drones and the drones that you call in for Battle Points, would have the possibility to mark enemies. It was outvoted by a more casual friendly mechanic :(. If more people vote for changing this mechanic, we should be able to do so. So keep this topic alive, guyz.

Thanks for the feedback.

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as an option it could me changed to static mark: when you mark an enemy, mark DOESNT move and stays at the place where the enemy was spotted. Or mark dissapears when marked enemy hide behind a cover

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9 minutes ago, Atway said:

as an option it could me changed to static mark: when you mark an enemy, mark DOESNT move and stays at the place where the enemy was spotted. Or mark dissapears when marked enemy hide behind a cover

It's also an option.

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5 hours ago, Atway said:

as an option it could me changed to static mark: when you mark an enemy, mark DOESNT move and stays at the place where the enemy was spotted. Or mark dissapears when marked enemy hide behind a cover

Marks already are disappearing if enemy hides behind the cover. Earlier spotting romb showed where they are for relatively big time. Now, I don't know if devs tweaked it, romb disappears in max 2 secs.

I think it should be like that: only enemies that are visible, should be marked for decent time. Those who are covered should be spotted for ~1sec. 

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6 hours ago, Morp said:

I agree, that shoting doritos isn't much fun, also game teaching you to spam [x] instad of using eyes, isn't ideal.

In the original design, I wanted players to be able to leave an "in world" marker (not marking players but an area). In this design, gadget drones and the drones that you call in for Battle Points, would have the possibility to mark enemies. It was outvoted by a more casual friendly mechanic :(. If more people vote for changing this mechanic, we should be able to do so. So keep this topic alive, guyz.

Thanks for the feedback.

That would be much much better and bring out the best this game has to offer, the more we get used to shooting markers, the less the game is different from a shooting gallery.

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7 hours ago, Morp said:

I agree, that shoting doritos isn't much fun, also game teaching you to spam [x] instad of using eyes, isn't ideal.

In the original design, I wanted players to be able to leave an "in world" marker (not marking players but an area). In this design, gadget drones and the drones that you call in for Battle Points, would have the possibility to mark enemies. It was outvoted by a more casual friendly mechanic :(. If more people vote for changing this mechanic, we should be able to do so. So keep this topic alive, guyz.

Thanks for the feedback.

Hello,

Have you heard of the saying: many chiefs, one dish?

Ok, I hope this is the mother of all posts in this thread. Here. We. Go!

Man, how is it so hard to see that implementing 3D spotting is a bad design choice - why? 

Several reasons:

a. Currently smoke grenades do not hide the player. He can still be spotted and shot through it. On top of that there are thermals for the infantry, which in my humble opinion, ought to be removed, and for the vehicles. No point in running with smokes. Can you imagine playing CS:GO and just pressing x f (remapped) to spot pushers / defenders? Why is this a thing in this game?

  The first 3D spotting implemented in my knowledge was in BF2142 - which you could use only with an upgrade, which is even worse as new players would not be benefiting from it. Then the dorito madness was introduced in BFBC2 and the current spotting is just like in that game and it is really really bad. The only reason I see DICE adding such a feature is because to dumb down the gameplay. It only hinders people utilizing light cover / maneuvers as once they get light up, it's like a group hack and people who barely see the silhouette of your character now have a well contrasted red target. RED - like, SHOOT HERE! So, instead of actually taking good positions, in order to be able to see better, now it doesn't matter. You can be anywhere and as long as there is line of sight, then it's all good. 

  This 3D spotting totally makes how you look pointless as you can get great color scheme / uniform for the certain situation but be hard countered by the red square. So camouflage is pointless as soon as you get 3D spotted, even people who would not see you clearly will just have to pew pew at the center and get points. This is what kids want, right? POINTS! YEY!

  On top of that, 3D spotting works even when hiding behind vegetation - so... You get the point.

b. 3D spotting is part of the logic of the game. In order to make it "fair" for the above mention examples, you'd have to add additional code & logic. Now, we all are aware of one particular Law, which states that the more complex one thing is, the higher the probability of something breaking. Thus to avoid unnecessary complexity + hours of work and testing, this should just get scrapped all together and leave it all to the players' eyes to find the target and shoot it. 

c. This is another part of the UI that only breaks clear 3D view of the game. Recently, I finished Half-Life 2 for the first time and the thing that I absolutely like is the minimalistic UI that you barely notice. DOI / Insurgency are going in the right direction with the UI as there is less of it and the focus of the player is the action in the 3D world and not the layer on top of it. Just perfection. Make me compelled to look at the 3D world not the freakin UI!

d. Let's call it what it is: a hack that allows you to clearly see the targets. So, you throw trained eyes out of the window and such because even 10 yo Billy can pew pew pew Pew Pew Pew Catching.

  Last note on the going for simplicity - HL2 is a simple game. The game is straight forward, the controls are easy for the beginner, the weapons and gunplay are easy to understand and yet it is super deep. It allows for that high skillful action while keeping it simple & fun. Thus many people can understand the concept of the gameplay and start gaming as A$AP as possible.

  And on a real last note - can we remove hit markers? Again, look at HL2 or at Brutal Doom mod  and other many games which do not have a hit markers but tell you much about what you are hitting and how. I'd rather see the impact on the target than get the marker + the points. It completely cheapens the entire experience, in my view.

I hope that my part here is done!

Edited by sivkon
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