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Virgil

Where are Developers ?

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33 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Nope, you're just wrong 

As a player (and I did report bugs on Discord, when connection was an issue) and as a buyer I can voice my displeasure who things are being handled, by your logic if someone buys any game can't voice any concern. 

And defending pushing game-breaking updates which aren't fixed for over 4 weeks is just patting devs on the back for no reason, especially in situation when it obviously hurts the game (player count and review/general reception)

We all can see that you are upset. So what? Anyone have to cancel their plans and resolve your problems?

Do your posts reports some problems? - No
Do your posts help to resolve some problems? - No
Do your posts give any useful piece of info to someone? - No 
Do your posts provide any value to anyone? - No

So I have a reasonable question to you - What the purpose of your posts, besides complaints? (I may destroy your imaginable world by this, but complaints doesn't help)

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My purpose is just concern that devs my their amateurish attitude to playtesting (no crash tests before launch, little playtesting before launching update) and to fixing game breaking issues (4 weeks is a lot - if I mess something badly in my work I have to fix it ASAP) is slowly killing this game as :

- player count is dropping badly - because game is unplayable for a lot of players

- game reviews/reception are dropping badly - becasue game is unplayable for a lot of player what it's more its hurting chances to bring back players or gain new players. 

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36 minutes ago, Virgil said:

My purpose is just concern that devs my their amateurish attitude to playtesting (no crash tests before launch, little playtesting before launching update) and to fixing game breaking issues (4 weeks is a lot - if I mess something badly in my work I have to fix it ASAP) is slowly killing this game as :

- player count is dropping badly - because game is unplayable for a lot of players

- game reviews/reception are dropping badly - becasue game is unplayable for a lot of player what it's more its hurting chances to bring back players or gain new players. 

So the purpose of your complaints are complaints itself? That explains a lot;)
There is also that guy who knows how everyone should do their jobs)

39 minutes ago, Virgil said:

My purpose is just concern that devs my their amateurish attitude to playtesting

So make proper documentation on how they should do it, our lord savior) It seems that you know better)

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I guess you have serious trouble reading 

- player count dropping badly and reviews dropping badly aren't complaint - those are facts that you can validate by yourself "Mr know it all" however you wanna spin those things are happening and it's bad not only for a game now but for it's future as well. 

I do not imply that I know how everyone should do their jobs as I don't - I am just speaking from players perspective - I bought a game and I stucked through horrible launch (which was Devs fault - they didn't do enough or any crash tests - if I remeber BigFry talked/wrote about - for him it was "stupid" not to do them), I defended the game and then after update that introduced game-breaking crashes I hope Devs will take responsibility for that and fix them ASAP- they didn't, it's 4 weeks and no solution - meanwhile player base shrinked to the point that there are less then 100 people for hours, reviews are dropping (as players are disgusted with crashes). 

Why should I make proper documentation on how they should playtest this game ? It's quite obviuos - hire big enough playtester team and not rely on "empty" PTE as empty PTE won't test anything. Devs explanation that crahses were minor on PTE were pathetic as only handful of people played on PTE as overall player count those days was like 350-450 players at peaks in main version - PTE servers were mostly half-empty or empty - so devs new right there thay update won't be playtested properly and even with that knowledge they didn't test it more but pushed it live and then went out of sight, releasing patch with new weapon week later knowing that a lot of people are having serious crash issues. 

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I do not think he has any trouble reading.

Yes the player count drops and one can observe that. But now comes the crucial part: How does it help in any way that you repeat that every couple of days? As you said: It is observable. Most likely the devs do not need your posts to keep track of the player count. And while it is absolutely fine to object the dropping player count it still opens the question what you think will get better by doing it again and again?

No doubt the devs made mistakes on launch and by pushing 0.3 to the live servers to soon. But most likely they do know that as well. Again what do you think gets better by repeating that statement again and again?

Yes I would have wished for a quicker fix and/or a more transparent communication. But maybe the devs are fixing the problems ASAP? With the P standing for possible it could be the case that fixing them quicker is by now not possible? Hiring a big enough playtester team sounds obvious but I imagine it isn't quite as easy as it sounds and quite expensive as well.

If you are hungry you would not find food on the plate by repeating that you are hungry every once in a while would you?

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4 minutes ago, Virgil said:

player count dropping badly and reviews dropping badly aren't complaint - those are facts that you can validate by yourself "Mr know it all" however you wanna spin those things are happening and it's bad not only for a game now but for it's future as well. 

So what?
I mean what the purpose of posting this here? Maybe you have some suggestion about how to change that? Maybe you know what to do? Maybe you have advice on what needed to be done?

Or give any reason why this information should be posted on a forum? (If someone needs raw data he can just go and check it in STEAM) By posting zero-value info you receive a reaction as above in this topic.
If you just want to share thoughts do it once, and in structured form (by structured I imply something different than just whining).

9 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I do not imply that I know how everyone should do their jobs

Your posts look like you do.

10 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I am just speaking from players perspective

Wrong! You are speaking from your perspective. If that is just mistaken about grammar (plural and singular) that's ok. But if you imply that you are speaking for the community, please don't do that, you aren't.

17 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I hope Devs will take responsibility for that and fix them ASAP- they didn't, it's 4 weeks and no solution

And again you are talking about how devs should do their work without any freaking clue about gamedev workflow. And that few sentences after you said that you don't imply you know everything better than anyone. That why I said that your posts definitely looks like you do. 

21 minutes ago, Virgil said:

It's quite obviuos - hire big enough playtester team

 

You are ready to pay for that? Looks like you are not only gamedev expert but business-analyst expert too!

Hey devs, hire that guy! He will solve all your problems at once, looks like he knows what he is talking about xD

 

 

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Hey there, we're sorry for the patch breaking the game for so many people, but there's a few good reasons for that. First and foremost, we changed how the game handles loading assets. This meant vast improvements to load times and RAM usage, we went down from ~12-13GB to 3-4GB, which is amazingly good. Of course, rewriting how engine handles loading is not a small change and we knew it can result in a lot of problems. This is why we waited with this change so long (work on it was started in like August).

After testing the game for a few weeks we pushed the change to PTE and it worked fine. After a week in testing and with the holidays marching in, we pushed the patch out since, for all we knew, it was working well.

This was a few days before the break, so we had w few days to fix it a bit more if something went wrong - which it did almost instantly. After that we found one PC in the whole company that crashed as well, it didn't happen at all anywhere else, didn't happen on our personal PCs at home either. Even now I can play with no issues at all for hours, since the patch the game crashed once for me personally.

Of course this is not an excuse, but at the same time - it's not like we didn't test the game before pushing the update out. As for the break - most of the team didn't have a day off for more than a year, we were working long hours and weekends for the last half a year, so everyone HAD TO take some time off. We were starting to get angry at each other for no reason, our families were neglected, and so on.

Now, this 'time off' ended on Jan 2nd, so we're talking a week and a half of time off after years of hardcore working. Everyone was back working on making the game work better. Thanks for your crash reports we've found 4 main problems with the game that compounded, all of which are fixed and now being tested.

Of course this is still our fault, and we are sorry that it turned out like this, but you have to remember we're a small company with limited time and resources and we can't just solve problems throwing money at them.

So, for what we've decided to do so this doesn't happen again:

1. We won't be rushing patches to meet deadlines. 0.4 might be a bit late because of that and we might need to adjust the Roadmap a bit, because the last 2 weeks were spent on fixing the game,

2. We've hired and are still hiring more QA staff to have more eyes on the game (this is taking time though, interviews and setting up),

3. We've added a few new tools that let us better handle crash reports and fix them faster,

Also, we are not planning on any more such big changes apart from switching the engine version (but the biggest change in garbage collector is already merged into our version).

TL;DR; We tested it and it worked for some bizzare reason, we've fixed the crashing that was reported, we're testing it better and we've made sure this doesn't happen again.

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@Ragir a little suggestion from me personally.
Please give more feedback (not even feedback, but a clarification to people) on the actual technical side of game development. We are not developers, and most of us hardly imagine how many human-hours needed to do something. That is causing posts like "DEVS NEED TO FIX THAT ASAP!"
And doing that preventively will decrease the number of such topics A LOT!
Also, this is just good practice and will improve communication with the community.
For example, every weekend or two post something like this: "We are working now on that and that. It needs these changes. We faced such unexpected problems and fixing them"

Still thanks for the awesome game! We are with you!
Don't burn out, we need you guys. (Well the game is still unfinished;)

Edited by CapybaraPaul

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12 minutes ago, CapybaraPaul said:

@Ragir a little suggestion from me personally.
Please give more feedback (not even feedback, but a clarification to people) on the actual technical side of game development. We are not developers, and most of us hardly imagine how many human-hours needed to do something. That is causing posts like "DEVS NEED TO FIX THAT ASAP!"
And doing that preventively will decrease the number of such topics A LOT!
Also, this is just good practice and will improve communication with the community.
For example, every weekend or two post something like this: "We are working now on that and that. It needs these changes. We faced such unexpected problems and fixing them"

Still thanks for the awesome game! We are with you!
Don't burn out, we need you guys. (Well the game is still unfinished;)

That's something we really want to do, explain how things work, show demos and graphs, it's just additional work that we don't really have time for, at least now. I've requested a detailed damage model breakdown from the design team, for example, and I think there was some animation stuff planned as well, but if you have making the game on one hand and making additional content on the other, the former always win.

That said, maybe a few sentences are worth the time, I'll bring that up.

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1 minute ago, Ragir said:

That's something we really want to do, explain how things work, show demos and graphs, it's just additional work that we don't really have time for, at least now. I've requested a detailed damage model breakdown from the design team, for example, and I think there was some animation stuff planned as well, but if you have making the game on one hand and making additional content on the other, the former always win.

That said, maybe a few sentences are worth the time, I'll bring that up.

Don't overcomplicate that;)

Even a few words will be awesome. And when you will have time, make animations graphs and other stuff.

Thanks;)

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I'm just waiting. I haven't played any game since December 23rd when I stopped playing this. I just watch Twitch. I am BORED. But I don't want to invest in another game like I was invested in WW3. It was wonderful.

I'm just waiting...very patiently ?

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46 minutes ago, Ragir said:

1. We won't be rushing patches to meet deadlines. 0.4 might be a bit late because of that and we might need to adjust the Roadmap a bit, because the last 2 weeks were spent on fixing the game,

2. We've hired and are still hiring more QA staff to have more eyes on the game (this is taking time though, interviews and setting up),

3. We've added a few new tools that let us better handle crash reports and fix them faster,

Well back when it was a closed test I highly advised you delay the launch into early access and we see how that turned out.  Lets see how this advice turns out.  

F51 you should look at hiring/contracting an outside group to help with development and improvements instead of hiring more internal staff. There are groups out there that specialize in assisting companies with problems you are having.   This would take a huge workload off of your staff.  They could work on additional content and less about bugs and improving fps.

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8 minutes ago, MFC_Plowing said:

Well back when it was a closed test I highly advised you delay the launch into early access and we see how that turned out.

For various reasons this was not an option for us either way.

8 minutes ago, MFC_Plowing said:

51 you should look at hiring/contracting an outside group to help with development and improvements instead of hiring more internal staff. There are groups out there that specialize in assisting companies with problems you are having. 

We've been in talks with companies like that for some time now, we are aware of how this works, trust me :P

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2 hours ago, Ragir said:

That's something we really want to do, explain how things work, show demos and graphs, it's just additional work that we don't really have time for, at least now. I've requested a detailed damage model breakdown from the design team, for example, and I think there was some animation stuff planned as well, but if you have making the game on one hand and making additional content on the other, the former always win.

That said, maybe a few sentences are worth the time, I'll bring that up.

It's been a while with those dev blogs, only the one I saw. Maybe using those once in a while and also putting those on social media so that people who don't regularly check the forums can also see that the work is being done.

Also because I've seen "frustrated people" to say the least outside the forums in larger numbers. It could reassure them that the project is alive maybe?

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17 hours ago, CapybaraPaul said:

@Ragir a little suggestion from me personally.
Please give more feedback (not even feedback, but a clarification to people) on the actual technical side of game development. We are not developers, and most of us hardly imagine how many human-hours needed to do something. That is causing posts like "DEVS NEED TO FIX THAT ASAP!"
And doing that preventively will decrease the number of such topics A LOT!
Also, this is just good practice and will improve communication with the community.
For example, every weekend or two post something like this: "We are working now on that and that. It needs these changes. We faced such unexpected problems and fixing them"

Still thanks for the awesome game! We are with you!
Don't burn out, we need you guys. (Well the game is still unfinished;)

The Rust Developers were doing this every week but they said it took about 15-20% of their time each week. Maybe one every month is enough

https://rust.facepunch.com/blog/
 

 

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Guys, I think you all should stop teaching Devs how to develop the game.

And It would be great if Devs can give us more detailed info since we are EA testers here, who help developing. But as IT-worker I understand that sometimes it is not even possible to give detailed ETA

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