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sivkon

Roles of Armored Vehicles and Infantry in General

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Hi,

Am I the only one who sees that there are generally no roles in the game? I mean, apart from a pusher/defender/sniper for the infantry and just tank for the vehicles, it seems that anything else is just role-playing? Like make believe!

What do I mean? For example, how many times has anyone seen IFV's / APC's transporting troops from A to B? I haven't at all in my 160 hours. What I mostly see is people using the armoured vehicles as power armor, storming the lines and causing havoc. It's all good until you realize that APC < IFV < MBT. There is literally no point in playing anything but the MBT due to the more powerful gun and armor. Oh but it costs less to run with the 8-wheeler... yeah...

Could we expect more defined roles for each vehicle? I mean, it is in the description of each class but in reality the only difference is how much they cost and how powerful they are in game. (Usually, the 8-thy is more hard to use and the MBT is the easiest - is this intentional?) Will we ever see 8-Wheelers driving on water just like in BF2? You do realize that game from 2005 had more defined roles than this current gen UE4 Super High HD 4K Texture "1 million" triangles per item game? And it runs better than this lel. 

Enough ranting. I'd suggest that vehicles are looked into with the thought of differentiating them and putting them in the proper roles. I'm not sure how to do it but giving free exp / BP wouldn't do it. Must be a mechanic of some sort. Maybe allow spawning on the IFV's only?

Infantry - It's a mess. I've tested to play like a MG gunner, i.e. take good positions, lied down with a bi-pod and mow down enemies. However, this does not work at all as I've seen plenty people just taking the damage like iron man and continue on their journey or look at me and are like: "What are you doing there, Willis?" and get killed with their sight only (which was supposed to be fixed but maybe this is laggy servers?). I mean 40 dmg is not enough?? I'm like hitting them 6 or so times and he keeps on living. Ugh... I don't know. If this was PR or DOI, that guy would have died 20 times.

Everyone is pretty much running and gunning at this point and there is very little resemblance of people taking different things, in order to fulfill a gap in the squad, so that the entire unit can take on multiple obstacles and enemies. How come in Project Reality and Squad, they have nailed the role play & team play to a T? Can't it be implemented in this game as well? Or is it doomed to be just a BF clone in a UE4 engine?

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Well there adding transport vehicles later I think (remember early access not a finished game) so that why there’s no defined role for vehicles besides armor pretty much.

I believe that vehicles that you can spawn on are also coming(which would probably award bp).

And on infantry I think th kind of “machine gunner” role won’t work unless you had a long barrel on your gun (I don’t know if you did or not) but the point was to have no classes your supposed to make your own (which is what your doing).

On the “machine gunner” specific class you were trying to make probably won’t work until you can bipod on most things and don’t have to go prone (if they add it that is) more like in DOI like you mentioned.

your right it’s pretty much running and gunning and maybe some camping too, but until voip is added team-play is gonna be more difficult (yes, I understand you could join a discord but most people won’t) for people to actually use a strategy as a team not just some individual flanking the enemy well there fighting there team somewhere else that’s just Coincidental team-play.

but no this is not gonna be just anothe battlefield “clone” it’s already quite a bit different.

But I do agree with pretty much everything you said @sivkon.

 

Edited by MOBBOB

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Hi @MOBBOB,

I'd like to address a few things you said in your last post. 

1. You can spawn on all vehicles right now. In the original post, I urged the developers to differentiate the vehicles in a gameplay manner, so that they are actually used for their designed roles. As I've said, has anyone used AFV / IFV to transport people from place to place? Or I they just used as power armor to kill lots of people from afar and in a relative safety? In games like Project Reality, different vehicles were used for different purposes as per their capabilities. I'm not sure what gameplay mechanics the developers should introduce or whether it is feasible to implement additional things to give each vehicle a defined role in this game.

2. About the infantry roles - In the original post, implementing defined roles like in others games was not encouraged. On the contrary, I mentioned that people ought to bring different things that add value to the overall combat effectiveness of the squad and enhance the team play. However, this is not what we see in the game. Personally, I love that I can create my own classes that I think are good for certain jobs and I pick my roles as depending on the situation. If there is an enemy vehicle, I'll bring my AT loadout and such.

Actually, when I think about it, I bring whatever I want to have fun with most of the time. Am I a part of the issue? : O

3. About the Machine Gunner role, I tried it again a few days ago. The only thing that I changed was the sight. The MG is the polish one (free one) that is completely stock beside the 2x no magnification Red Dot sight and the bi-pod. I managed to destroy 3 waves of enemies at A2 in Warsaw by taking a good position and laying down, shooting at anything that approached from the mall or from the road that leads to A1. Thus, it can work. 

However, in the first time, I used a medium magnification optics x5 and even though it was easier to see the enemies and where the bullets went, I was not able to perform well. I am not sure whether that day was a bad-hit-reg-day or the performance of my PC was the cause, I am just not sure at this point.

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11 hours ago, sivkon said:You can spawn on all vehicles right now.

You can? I didn’t know I’ve played 30ish hours and have never noticed. 

(Much less time then you)

11 hours ago, sivkon said:

As I've said, has anyone used AFV / IFV to transport people from place to place?

I’ve never seen anyone use vehicles for transport, besides the quads (only for themselves too) and I think that’s becuase no one can communicate properly due to text chat being the main way to talk to other people.

 

11 hours ago, sivkon said:

Or I they just used as power armor to kill lots of people from afar and in a relative safety? 

Pretty much.

 

11 hours ago, sivkon said:

In games like Project Reality, different vehicles were used for different purposes as per their capabilities.

I don’t fully know what project reality is but from what I heard it’s a milsim style game, (correct me if I’m wrong)  vehicles in milsim games tend to have more defined roles. I think it’s a mod for bf2 (you would know) but I think they have a stand-alone game too)

11 hours ago, sivkon said:

Actually, when I think about it, I bring whatever I want to have fun with most of the time. Am I a part of the issue? : O

Me too, does that mean we’re both part of the issue? : O

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Posted (edited)

1. About the "vehicle roles", there is more meanful things that differ the classes, than a transport capability, like:

  • logistic, wheeled vehicles are easier to transport 'from battle to battle', and its {not difficult to and should be} reflected by in game costs, with a bit higher speed this counters with sustainability ( {APC/IFV}s solid wheels are easier to destroy than tracks, by some 50 cal. time, and grenades for example ), and a pass-ability, which also should be reflected,
  • armor should cost equal to it's performance, regardless of vehicle that carry it, and the price should reflect the armor by it-self, and also the wastes related to logistic of it's weight (its about all the armor from 0, not upgrades from vehicle's default),
  • in modern time, armament options do not differ in AT power from MBTs to IFVs and even APCs (but optionally un-used),

So, that makes wheeled vehicles more battle-cheap, tracked {APC/IFV}s able to securely transport infantry and usually use lighter, more Anti-Personnel efficient and closer to friendly forces use weapons with safe position firing slower than shells flying AT missiles, while MBTs are heavy things that are strategically spread, that correlates with heavy, fast reaching weapons, so they do use.

So, the game just need to have

  • cost buff for wheeled vehicles,
  • immobilization damage,
  • meaningful: large shells ammo-load sizes, maybe rearm cost,
    • firing,hitting radius damage;,
  • performance based, high armor prices,
  • enough player density, large maps,
  • squad-independent transport vehicle respawns, transport awards,
  • low presence of vehicles lighter than a reinforced HMMWV (with eq./heavier ones cost appropriately high of course),

together, and the game will be best in the world modern combined arms warfare game.

p.s.
it won't be bad to have adhesion physic, but though it will enhance gameplay, its more about appearance addition.
And related idea, it may be good to make friendly damage increased (> than enemies'), maybe only for vehicles, i know it may sound bit weird, but in reality hitting a friendly should cost more than enemy (with negative sign), so players should rather do not fire at friendlies than do fire at enemies (it won't work without TK punishments of course).

 

2.[]. i'm not sure if its referenced in other than this topic, but some related current issues are,

  • unequal vehicles spread between teams,
  • start access restriction for players that mainly want to play on the vehicles (less important),
  • {buff/ closed circle} of the vehicles obtaining for players already on them,

they are derivings from the progression unlocking, BF's system have own issues too, but is an options that may be able to solute this all, for example:

  1. a PlanetSide2 type subtracting points that regenerate over time, in same speed, or "cooldown" timers, (control how slow/long they are and it will control the amount of vehicles), it may be good to start with a low points or randomize a 1st count-downs, it also can be combined,
  2. {alive vehicles, operator performance, use frequency} variables, and order queue, so if alive vehicles are at limit, they can be only queued, when some vehicle gets destroyed a player with a
    [match-wise the vehicle operation performance or highest existing value for players that haven't operated it yet] * ([time since last operat-ion or game joing] * [modifier])

    value highest, gets a message that he can get the vehicle, if he do not agree in some time, the next player asked (the [time since last operat-ion] should mean more than the "performance")

 

Edited by ilias

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