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Make Armour GREAT Again

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With these recent changes, armour feels irrelevant, even to the point of level IV steel not being able to stop anything except MAYBE 1 bullet at times.

It feels quite underwhelming for the trade off ( the speed decrease, general movement slows down, also the weight )

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Armor was really never that great but right now its almost pointless.

Meta is just spraying as you turn corners and a extra bullet or doesnt really matter when arm and legs do so much damage.

Before you had gut aimers but at least they aimed somewhat in stead of spraying all over the place with out regaurd since you have so much ammo to waste it doesnt matter.

 

 

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We have multiple ideas as to what to do with armor, but first I'd rather have people play the game a bit longer. Armor is dependant on the weapon used now so the reason of it feeling "worthless" is  that a  lot of players may take light armors and expect them to protect them against assault rifles - Which is not the case by design.

We're all up for an armor buff but first we'd rather be sure the current balance is UP and it's not just the case of players not understanding/being accustomed to the new balance.

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14 minutes ago, Borreh said:

We have multiple ideas as to what to do with armor, but first I'd rather have people play the game a bit longer. Armor is dependant on the weapon used now so the reason of it feeling "worthless" is  that a  lot of players may take light armors and expect them to protect them against assault rifles - Which is not the case by design.

We're all up for an armor buff but first we'd rather be sure the current balance is UP and it's not just the case of players not understanding/being accustomed to the new balance.

Im accustomed and I understand It, Ive been forcing my self to play it.

Ive played low TTK games in the past and the issues are still present with this game like getting shot by people before they are visible on screen if you have High ping to their low ping.

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7 hours ago, TZoningHard said:

Ive played low TTK games in the past and the issues are still present with this game like getting shot by people before they are visible on screen if you have High ping to their low ping.

This is the problem with TTK, fast TTK means it all comes down to PING and your FPS, not your skills. When I get into server and my PING is low and stable, I get no "challenge" from the gameplay now.

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1 minute ago, FoxFort said:

This is the problem with TTK, fast TTK means it all comes down to PING and your FPS, not your skills. When I get into server and my PING is low and stable, I get no "challenge" from the gameplay now.

Its bad when in NA we go from 38 to 100 and some times high along with SA players sometimes joining us. You feel OP when you are near your server but when you are connecting to the other side of the country every ones shooting you as soon as they come through doors with out a spit second reaction time from them because of the ping.

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Do only Borreh and me think that the armor is balanced right now?

Edited by Akan
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10 hours ago, Akan said:

Do only Borreh and me think that the armor is balanced right now?

No, I think it’s fine.

Edited by MOBBOB
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2 hours ago, MOBBOB said:

No, I think it’s fine.

Me too.

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On 2/9/2019 at 2:51 AM, Borreh said:

We have multiple ideas as to what to do with armor, but first I'd rather have people play the game a bit longer. Armor is dependant on the weapon used now so the reason of it feeling "worthless" is  that a  lot of players may take light armors and expect them to protect them against assault rifles - Which is not the case by design.

We're all up for an armor buff but first we'd rather be sure the current balance is UP and it's not just the case of players not understanding/being accustomed to the new balance.

Well nice concept but doesnt work imo. I thought the same in the beginning and went full armor but after playing quite a lot and trying to make it work I have to say it's not (the armor system) in a good state.

You die so quickly with or without it and I couldn't feel a significant difference. I feel like the heavy armor itself protects so less of you and takes away so much mobility. Not getting hit with light armor and dodging shots was way more efficient than the heavy armor.

The only way you can get a advantage is to play really passive and let the enemy come to you. If you have a good position the movement doesnt matter and you can take them on with heavy armor no problem. But then again you can do that with any armor type....

But then again I understand if people dont like armor. It makes TTK inconsistent depening on which armor your enemy uses....

I just don't feel like the "protecting" it offers is at the same level as the movement penalty.

 

Maybe making the armor plate itself bigger would make it more viable? Or give the heaviest one a backplate or sideplate as well?

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I think armor should not only affect your speed, but the stronger armor you have, the more weight you can carry. So lightest armor would be optimized for max speed and use of smgs, while heaviest armor would be more anti-material and prone LMGS, while being much harder to take out. Meaning, the only way to kill them quickly is headshots or AP rounds. I'm not sure if this would be implemented well, but as of now, the armor is more useless than it ever was before. Lightest armor is basically no armor. And perhaps the average AR guys will have an all around balanced play style, in terms of speed and damage resistance. I mean, not only did you guys lower the TTK, but made armor all around less damage resistant, this changed the gameplay by a large margin. Maybe ask of before hand if we would like such low TTK, before implementing it. 

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Also, my biggest problem with 0.4 is not the TTK, it is the recoil. It is fake recoil, which is there only to force you to burst fire. And many have said that it is not random, but it still feels very plastic, if you go fully auto, the gun goes full-retard, jumping left to right, like what is even going on? If you are trying to make the gun play harder or maybe more challenging, make it so that more effort needs to be put in to get good recoil control. And pretty much everybody was already burst firing at a certain distance anyways in 0.3. 

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41 minutes ago, Artaxiad300062 said:

I think armor should not only affect your speed, but the stronger armor you have, the more weight you can carry.

So if you already carry heavy armor you get more strength and could carry mgs and other stuff? This seems illogical to how humans work. Right now you can carry the heavy guns BECAUSE you are not weight down by heavy armor. Changing that would not only change the game tremendously but it would be flat out broken imo.

 

41 minutes ago, Artaxiad300062 said:

It is fake recoil, which is there only to force you to burst fire.

I go full auto at every range to be honest... well I'm mostly playing mg5 and beryl so just aim at them, hold mouse1, pull down and kill everyone you see.

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I am a bit with Fullback here. Heavy armor allowing to carry more additional weight feels illogical and would maybe be op. I just imagine someone carrying heavy armor sitting far back (where presumably the armor helps more due to damage drop off) with an MG and a sniper rifle. Go prone and have fun all day? Not sure about that. I could follow this argumentation somewhat if heavier armor would represent a different vest with more pockets to stuff something in for example. But I thought of the armor system as switching the plate in the same vest so to say.

I think the armor itself is balanced. Whenever I come accross someone carrying heavy armor and shooting with a 5.56 AR I immediately notice the difference to penetrating shots against lighter armor. You definitely need more shots when armor comes into play but it simply doesn't often enough or the other way round shooting the limbs and gut is too easy so that armor often is neglect1ed.

@Borreh a short question regarding the hitmarkers: If I hit someone in the chest/protected part of the torso and I penetrate the armor will I get the normal hit marker or the armor hit marker? For analytical purposes it could be interesting to acitivate the armor hitmarkers whenever armor is hit even when it is penetrated. Because one would see how often armor has an influence in a fight. If that is already the case from my experience I would say either hardly anybody carries ceramic or steel armor to stop 5.56 rounds or I simply avoid hitting the armor in about 90% of the hits.

My propositions would be mainly:

1. To increase the protected part of the torso for ceramic and even further steel plates. So that gut shots are as hard as face shots when someone carries a steel plate.

2. Reduce the limb shot modifier a bit and instead allow for limb penetration if it is not already implemented.

Another thing that could put heavier armor in a better place could be a slight speed reduction for the light and maybe also medium builds. You are freaking fast with a light build. A bit too fast maybe?

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1 hour ago, HeiligeRobbe said:

a short question regarding the hitmarkers: If I hit someone in the chest/protected part of the torso and I penetrate the armor will I get the normal hit marker or the armor hit marker? For analytical purposes it could be interesting to acitivate the armor hitmarkers whenever armor is hit even when it is penetrated. Because one would see how often armor has an influence in a fight. If that is already the case from my experience I would say either hardly anybody carries ceramic or steel armor to stop 5.56 rounds or I simply avoid hitting the armor in about 90% of the hits.

This! What this game is really lacking atm is feedback about what is going on after you press the trigger. With some kind of sound and/or visual confirmation of hit it would be so much better and maybe people would start appreciating heavy armor.

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You can actually set different colours for different hits. general hits, headhots, helmet hit. armor hit, general kill and headshot kill if I am not mistaken. My point is that I only rarely get a armor hit marker. So either they don't show up because I penetrate the enemy's armor as they are carrying light armor only or else I simply almost never hit the armored part of the body. Given I still aim for the upper chest or head due to slowly dying habbits I would find the latter strange and conclude that I mainly hit the limbs (someone has posted a picture in another thread showing how much of the body is actually covered by the arms if a player is ads-ing) and/or gut.

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18 hours ago, Fullback said:

So if you already carry heavy armor you get more strength and could carry mgs and other stuff? This seems illogical to how humans work. Right now you can carry the heavy guns BECAUSE you are not weight down by heavy armor. Changing that would not only change the game tremendously but it would be flat out broken imo.

It has nothing to do with how humans work, adding steel plate to chest, compared to Kevlar, won't change your ability to carry more, unless you are a very small person. But my suggestion was out of the blue, not something I really would like implemented. How about this, lighter armors cover more of the body, and allow you to use lighter weapons (as is the case now) but heavier armors cover less but those parts covered are very resistant, to a point where you got to shoot legs, arms and head. And perhaps that would create a whole mechanic where you would need to use a binoculars to views enemies and know if they are light-medium-heavy. And perhaps, heavies can't carry a secondary, other than a pistol. Anyways, these are still just random thoughts and suggestions. But on the recoil, it doesn't matter if you can or are using fully-auto. I am talking about the core of the gun-play now, which is inferior to 0.3's. Sure if you are skilled, you can still fully-auto down a certain range, but there is still that weird horizontal recoil that kicks right and left, I would the 0.3 system to be improved, rather than moving the game into this new 0.4's recoil, which is not of my liking, or of many others. 

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I would say go back to .3 remove the gut shots and then start from there. The game would be more about positioning and tactics along with aim because you couldn't just cheese your way through I fight just because you saw the other player first. The possibility they would have armor would make people use cover more like it used to and you wouldn't be able to just run and gun around every corner because you wouldn't be sure if you could insta kill the other player.

Armor was pretty balance out side of the gut shot which made light load outs better for survivablity because if you could die to a cheesy gut shot with or with out armor it would be better to try to dodge their aim.

The weight system balanced out very well before and when you were heavy you could take bigger weapons to make up for the low survivabilty and vice versa if you took heavy weapons that made you slow you could get steelplate to make up for the death trap of being slow. But that was before the arbitrary hard weight limit that messed all that up.

Gameplay over fake concepts of realism.

 

Actually just go back to .2 Every one was complaining about .3 wasn't as good as .2 untill we got .4 and it got so bad people started quiting because of the gameplay changes.

 

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10 hours ago, TZoningHard said:

I would say go back to .3 remove the gut shots and then start from there. The game would be more about positioning and tactics along with aim because you couldn't just cheese your way through I fight just because you saw the other player first. The possibility they would have armor would make people use cover more like it used to and you wouldn't be able to just run and gun around every corner because you wouldn't be sure if you could insta kill the other player.

 

Don't these points kind of conflict? Positioning and tactics lead to seeing the other player first, rushing around corners in a low ttk game is a great way to get dropped by someone holding an angle on that corner from a well protected position.

 

10 hours ago, TZoningHard said:

Gameplay over fake concepts of realism.

Have the devs said these changes were about realism? Low ttk might be more realistic but that doesn't mean realism is the driving factor behind the change.

 

10 hours ago, TZoningHard said:

Actually just go back to .2 Every one was complaining about .3 wasn't as good as .2 untill we got .4 and it got so bad people started quiting because of the gameplay changes.

I quit before 0.3 even came out because the high ttk combined with gutshots made most engagements feel awful. The lowered ttk has tempted me back.

 

 

 

Edited by Cral
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We're reading those discussions, we'll be iterating on the TTK in the next update.

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5 hours ago, Cral said:

I quit before 0.3 even came out because the high ttk combined with gutshots made most engagements feel awful. The lowered ttk has tempted me back.

This game has never had high TTK, it was bad hitreg that made it seem like that. 

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On 2/13/2019 at 11:31 AM, Artaxiad300062 said:

This game has never had high TTK, it was bad hitreg that made it seem like that. 

That's why i kinda liked the messed up hitreg even though it should be fixed.

I would OK if the back and sides were low TTK like 3-4 hits so you can be able to take out a lot of players but have head on fights be higher and more skill based because of armor.

Main issue is the 3 hit kill of the old patches hitboxes was too big and was the entire body. The 3 hit kill should be smaller at least since that is what other video games do to fix the issue of spraying to win. Armor should cover that hit box and be equal too or better to land a hit on then the outside of center of the chest.

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