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Killing and dying now is a lot faster. I am not sure how to approach it.

On the one hand, it's more "realistic" but on the other hand, no weapon sway no, stamina, almost makes this game a too simple. Luckily recoil is strong so it kinda balances it. (Not enough in my opinion). Currently my whole experience is mindless run and gun... Spawn, sprint around, kill, sprint, die, respawn. Repeat and repeat. 

Once you learn how your weapon recoil behaves, it's super easy to play and gets "stale" after one full match. Only thing that I am having issue is PING. 
I am not seeing much challenge now, gun and run is fun I just can't play more than 1 hour at this moment per day, or I can go a full week without playing easily (still play for 1 hour and it's enough). Recently I have moved from ArmA3 onto Squad so when I want more slowly and heavily team oriented experience I play that game, so I don't expect or need WW3 to be Squad v2. 
Currently, WW3 is closer to CoDMW2 gameplay style. When v0.1 was released it had the super strong armor plates and it gave WW3 some, "flavour". With that gone and now fast TTK, I'm basically playing MW2 now. (meh).

Could we perhaps in future see a bit less of this mindless sprinting around game design? It's too generic with market being oversaturated with these kind of titles.  

With game being in Beta 0.4, the game is far from being completed. So I just want to point now, that with v0.4 you have made overall a good improvements with your game, which is truly a job well done.  Thank you for the server browser ! 

 

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I agree, the TTK decrease was something nobody asked for, maybe they can leave that for a "hardcore" mode like in BF games. But the larger problem is the recoil, it went from realistic, to random burst left and right. Get this, a professional soldiers in 2026, that can't operate an AR and fire more than 10 without losing control of his modern firearm. 

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20 minutes ago, Artaxiad300062 said:

I agree, the TTK decrease was something nobody asked for, maybe they can leave that for a "hardcore" mode like in BF games. But the larger problem is the recoil, it went from realistic, to random burst left and right. Get this, a professional soldiers in 2026, that can't operate an AR and fire more than 10 without losing control of his modern firearm. 

did you see any soldier shooting full auto? I didnt, only bursts. Well, ofc some of them do it, but im talking in common

And btw, it is simple to control recoil even in 0.4. And you dont need to shoot full auto, due to new TTK

Edited by Atway

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I also don't get where this "unrealisitic" recoil complaint comes from. I think it is hard to replicate a real recoil feeling in a video game given that you hold a mouse instead of a gun and all that's possible is to let the player have to move the mouse to counter the gun movement. Coming from that I would say a realistic recoil in a game (which strives to a realisitic immersion at least to a degree according to the devs) is one that leads to shooting habits similar to what one would see in realitiy. And as far as I know spraying a whole magazine happily down 50+ meters is not that common but I have never shot a gun on my own I can only ask the internet for what real soldiers say and do.

Apart of that I also don't get how someone would say the recoil is too strong ingame. As I noted in the feedback thread it might be that there are desync problems or something like that because guns sometimes deviate from the predictable recoil path for a couple of shots and then return to it. But other than that the recoil is so easy to manage. Someone brought up the comparison to Bf 3. It might be hard to compare directly but I would say it is easier to spray more bullets accurately down range in WW3 than in Bf3 because the recoil is so modest. I tended to tap and/or burst fire a lot more in Bf 3 depending on the weapon.

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I personally loathe high TTK games in most FPS since they usually do not reward what I personally like in multiplayer FPS. 

I have a personal formula in which a player should win a firefight in most situations if

  • You see a player first
  • You aim at the player first
  • Your shoot first and your aim is not off

I feel that this is when a player should win a standard firefight and by extension also a squad that works together. Having a high TTK usually means that that players that make clear mistakes can get our of the situation or even turn it around. I think this does not fit in most FPS unless it is something completely different sub-genre. Examples would be Overwatch, Quake, Unreal Tournament etc..

I more or less despise the armor system that we had and somewhat still have, since it basically turns the points I mentioned around. You can survive firefights, just because you picked heavier armor and it also created big issues in the meta game like aiming below the plate. I think that this was way too ambitious and borderline stupid. This game should not try to re-invent where players have to aim at which is usually the center of mass or the head. 

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New TTK is pretty shallow and feels really RNG based now.

The guns felt so good before and shot realisticly. You cant have realistic weapon control and low TTK in a game it doesnt work because the game play becomes broken and high tier play becomes focused on abusing lag to see other players first.

Positioning matters less now because you and crutch on seeing players first to insta kill other players, teamwork matters less since one player can demolish 10 people in a row in a braindead manner, tactics is just making sure to ADAD strafe on a corner or run straight through a door way to abuse lag so you can shoot another player before they see you, killing is super casual now no effort required just spray at them in hipfire get kills out to 60m, spray as you round a corner, spray aiming down sights its so meaningless to aim anymore and you dont have to think about how to shoot or make conservative shots when the near endless amount of ammo now.

Overall the game has became very one dimensional, shallow, and narrow in view. Less tactical more CoD now where you turn off your brain run around shooting people before they see you. Its not hard or requires any real thought to have positioning or play "tactical" but now you removed the effort from killing another players resting the game solely onto who sees who first.

The direction this game has gone took away reasons to do good in a match and the incentives for team work with steak handouts which are just cheese in the first place, Its becoming just another boring casual shooter that will only entertain people for a couple hours a week at most.

Ive forced myself to play around 20 hours of the new TTK split between the pte and live to give it a fair chance. I have over 500 hours in game and my enjoyment has decreased as the game has gotten more casual and carebear but it wasn't as so bad to stop playing till now. Its too boring to play right now and I just sat it down and aint wasting my time on it anymore. Kept taking away the in game incentives and needs to think and play as a team each patch. Ill of play something that isn't so braindead for now and wait to see the direction of the game.

 

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The trend that I'm seeing with people and this game is they want it more of a military sim or military sim features rather than keep the current flow of gameplay. The maps and gameplay mechanics aren't the same as Arma or Squad.

Having TTK low in game is realistic. If you get shot with an AK which is chambered in 7.62 a few times you've have a high chance of dying IRL and same goes for in-game. This goes for any gun really. It's realistic to die fast. If you're not happy with the current gameplay style, then adjust how you play the game. I play this for at least 5 or more hours a day cause the gameplay is fun. Sure it gets annoying walking out in the open and getting gunned down in a matter of a second, but it's expected. I couldn't imagine playing this game with a stamina bar, recoil so high you can't even spray, especially when you can put drum mags on weapons. I'm not knocking anyone's opinions I'm just expressing mines.

However, I do agree with Schlagerfreund. Armor still needs some changes, and if you see someone first and shoot at them first, the odds of winning a gunfight should be in your favor. I also agree again with the high TTK statement. Having a higher TTK will reward players that make dumb decisions a chance to win the gun fight. Ultimately surviving. That shouldn't be the case with this game.

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28 minutes ago, Astroahh said:

The trend that I'm seeing with people and this game is they want it more of a military sim or military sim features rather than keep the current flow of gameplay. The maps and gameplay mechanics aren't the same as Arma or Squad.

Having TTK low in game is realistic. If you get shot with an AK which is chambered in 7.62 a few times you've have a high chance of dying IRL and same goes for in-game. This goes for any gun really. It's realistic to die fast. If you're not happy with the current gameplay style, then adjust how you play the game. I play this for at least 5 or more hours a day cause the gameplay is fun. Sure it gets annoying walking out in the open and getting gunned down in a matter of a second, but it's expected. I couldn't imagine playing this game with a stamina bar, recoil so high you can't even spray, especially when you can put drum mags on weapons. I'm not knocking anyone's opinions I'm just expressing mines.

However, I do agree with Schlagerfreund. Armor still needs some changes, and if you see someone first and shoot at them first, the odds of winning a gunfight should be in your favor. I also agree again with the high TTK statement. Having a higher TTK will reward players that make dumb decisions a chance to win the gun fight. Ultimately surviving. That shouldn't be the case with this game.

When I have a higher KD now because the game is easier die less then before its not about me getting better its about the game getting easier. Not every one likes this and its not a one sided thing about people wanting milsim larp game. People on all platforms are complaining about the games TTK now as well as the casual players saying its better now because they dont have a hard time playing anymore.

The odds already were in you favor the only thing that stopped you from killing a flanked player was bad aimskills which you can improve upon.

 

Its not play style when I get decakills and am always at the top of the leaderboards on both WZ and TDM. The game is too dumbed down and shallow to high skill players to enjoy. There's also the huge issue with lag deciding who wins now since the game is so one dimensional and narrow in the meta to win. I know how to play the game and how to the issue it its far to casual now like all the other milsims out there.

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Uhm but that cannot hold entirely can it? Of course gameplay changes may suit one player more than another so without getting a better player you perform better. But not everybody can have a higher K/D out of a sudden. So while the game becomes easier for some it apparently becomes harder for others doesn't it?

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2 hours ago, TZoningHard said:

When I have a higher KD now because the game is easier die less then before its not about me getting better its about the game getting easier. Not every one likes this and its not a one sided thing about people wanting milsim larp game. People on all platforms are complaining about the games TTK now as well as the casual players saying its better now because they dont have a hard time playing anymore.

The odds already were in you favor the only thing that stopped you from killing a flanked player was bad aimskills which you can improve upon.

 

Its not play style when I get decakills and am always at the top of the leaderboards on both WZ and TDM. The game is too dumbed down and shallow to high skill players to enjoy. There's also the huge issue with lag deciding who wins now since the game is so one dimensional and narrow in the meta to win. I know how to play the game and how to the issue it its far to casual now like all the other milsims out there.

Anyone can get decakills, it's easy. I do it literally every game. I haven't even hit a thousand deaths and I got 4k+ kills and I've only got 80 or so hours. Anyone can get top of the leader boards as well. This game isn't the hardest out there and I'm pretty confident everyone understands that, but all I'm hearing on the forums is everyone wants the game to be more skilled based and harder. If you want that go play EFT, BFV, Arma3 or squad. If you wan't a more competitive game go and play Fortnite, CSGO or something that takes a bit more time to learn and actually separate skilled and casual players. All WW3 is to me is a "tactical shooter" that focuses on gun play and playing the objective. 

The game compared to .3 and .4 doesn't feel any different to me in gun play. I still perform way above average (not trying to boast). TTK feels better when I don't have to lob a whole clip into someone. This makes it good for casual players because they don't have to sweat their balls off to get a kill. Lots of people complain in-game saying "My stupid teammates aren't doing shit" and stuff relevant to that when they don't win or are losing. Me personally on the other hand I don't care about winning. I care about having a good time. This game is something I can just load up, find a match and play and not care how I do. 

Once again this is my personal opinion and experience just playing the game.

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10 hours ago, Atway said:

did you see any soldier shooting full auto? I didnt, only bursts. Well, ofc some of them do it, but im talking in common

And btw, it is simple to control recoil even in 0.4. And you dont need to shoot full auto, due to new TTK

Your point actually goes against why they increased the recoil in the first place, they wanted less control down range and more bursts. But according to you, everybody was already using bursts. And I agree with that, past a certain distance, everybody was already using burst, especially on Smolensk. I know whether or not it is simple to control recoil or not, I get 60 kills in TDM barely trying, so its not that I am complaining about me not enjoying the game due to a higher skill level required now. It is because the recoil pattern is forced now, whereas before it was much smoother, more realistic, they could have changed it for the better, like ADS down right to control the weapon and make it accurate in fully-auto, but that mechanic is pretty much dead, you don't even need to ADS down left or right to control recoil, you just gotta stop pressing the triggering once the gun starts kicking left and right uncontrollably. Now that is what I have a problem with. 

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7 hours ago, HeiligeRobbe said:

And as far as I know spraying a whole magazine happily down 50+ meters is not that common but I have never shot a gun on my own I can only ask the internet for what real soldiers say and do.

Apart of that I also don't get how someone would say the recoil is too strong ingame.

Yes, for suppression purposes and among many others, soldiers do use fully-auto, but for a certain distance. But my complaint is not about the vertical recoil anyway, its the horizontal, which just forces your weapon left and right, which is there to make you do more bursts, but people are already doing bursts. It is now, less about controlled and accurate skill-based shooting, but hip firing from 20 meter at fully-auto, and who's first to spot and burst fire past 30 meters. 

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3 hours ago, Astroahh said:

he trend that I'm seeing with people and this game is they want it more of a military sim or military sim features rather than keep the current flow of gameplay. The maps and gameplay mechanics aren't the same as Arma or Squad.

Having TTK low in game is realistic. If you get shot with an AK which is chambered in 7.62 a few times you've have a high chance of dying IRL and same goes for in-game.

Well, that is what the devs marketed the game as, its not really a trend when you spent money to expect something promised by the devs. There was absolutely nothing realistic about Squad, the gun-play in the game was faker than cod, they added ridiculous amounts of unnecessary recoil, my grandmother can shoot an AR smoother than how you can shoot in Squad. Arma is between, it is more realistic than Squad and WW3, but not really on the level of BF3. In BF3, actually mastering each weapon's recoil was a real thing. Something like the AS-Val had to be tapped very fast and ADS'd to the bottom right, and when doing so you got great recoil but with much more effort. But this game in its current state, is just dumbed down gun-play, shoot straight until your gun loses control, stop firing, and immediately start firing again. 0.3 recoil was much more favorable, but not perfect, I believed they were improve upon that, rather than turn it into this. 

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4 hours ago, Astroahh said:

Having a higher TTK will reward players that make dumb decisions a chance to win the gun fight. Ultimately surviving. That shouldn't be the case with this game.

+1 man. I like it when a game rewards people for thinking, rather than aiming. Another thing is... People call aiming "skill." There's more than one type of skill in games. In this game, skill should be the ability to use, think of, and implement tactics, rather than spray someone down and brag about being a good player. Kills shouldn't matter in Warzone, objectives and teamplay should.


Also @HeiligeRobbe Firing a weapon blindly is more common than in any FPS, that's for sure, it's for suppression. This is more of a case due to war evolving to not being total war or mainly being this volunteer kind of thing we see in the Middle East. You can see some examples on YouTube even, real war footage where guys just spray at something you can't even see.

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5 hours ago, TCPPolak said:

Having a higher TTK will reward players that make dumb decisions a chance to win the gun fight. Ultimately surviving. That shouldn't be the case with this game.

0.3 ttk was already pretty low. Now its just super low, so.. 

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1 hour ago, Artaxiad300062 said:

0.3 ttk was already pretty low. Now its just super low, so.. 

Yeah, the gut shot was a issue with making it even lower as well. I would say that if the gut shot was fixed you would have the rewards for setting up unfair fights adn being able to still kill a lot of enemies in a row while having the high skill head on fights.

Some people cant do both think and aim and need to have the game made easier when it wasn't really even difficult.

The thinking part isn't even difficult many people think so slowly and cant do both so they have to make the game easier then try to say its more skilled. Just dont be dumb and the "tactical thinking" part is done. For good players that is pretty low skill ceiling stuff and makes a shallow uninteresting game since the thinking was always there but you had to think faster and multi-tasked it with good aim.

Now the game literally requires no thinking though. You just reflex on bad players and most players arent good at any skill so the low skill ceiling "tactical thought skill" which is just as natural as breathing if you are a competent player doesn't matter because you just need to abuse lagging around corners.

 

The game wasn't entirely that high skill to begin with because the TTK was quite low but the armor system made a near appropriate TTK for high skill play alround out side gut shots and the massive hitbox for a 3 shot kill. Now the last bit of skill has been removed so any good player who already is good at "thinking skills" is board because all that is low skill ceiling stuff.

@Artaxiad300062 agree with the part about squads gunplay being fake and unrealistic. I have only 283 hours in that game but it was somewhat fun until they completely ruined the gunplay in v.10. The games with low TTK that work have unrealistically fake gunplay that have your character handle weapons like he is disabled in order to balance the low TTK by limiting player skill.

 

I bought into a BF2/BF3 game not a milsim which milsims usually have fake gunplay. BF3s gunplay is really good and lots of games stolen that gun play to rip it to their games like PS2 did.

Edited by TZoningHard
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I’m actually enjoying the new gunplay. (Can’t tell much of a difference but...)                  I prefer games that punish me for being stupid like R6S and insurgency sandstorm (no people who play insurgency sandstorm aren’t what I’d call “larpers”) And I think that’s how WW3 is currently(atleast from my experience).

Though I do wish armor was better it’s alright now maybe a slight buff by decreasing limb damage.

also in games your “character” doesn’t necessarily die all the time you “dieing” is your soldier incapable of fighting anymore due to injuries. (Some of the time atleast if you get exploded from a grenade in your hand your dead)

This is just my opinion though.

Edited by MOBBOB
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11 hours ago, Artaxiad300062 said:

Yes, for suppression purposes and among many others, soldiers do use fully-auto, but for a certain distance. But my complaint is not about the vertical recoil anyway, its the horizontal, which just forces your weapon left and right, which is there to make you do more bursts, but people are already doing bursts. It is now, less about controlled and accurate skill-based shooting, but hip firing from 20 meter at fully-auto, and who's first to spot and burst fire past 30 meters. 

Hmm, maybe that depends on the weapon one uses. I just tested that quickly yesterday with the Beryl, G38 and Scar-H, with the Beryl having a high spread and the Scar-H having a high recoil and low spread value (speaking about ingame stats). The Bery and G38 had a very smooth pattern. The G38 goes straight upwards for 7-8 Shots I would say and then drifts to the right and the Beryl tends to drift to the right from the first bullets on (I just shot a couple of magazines into a wall on PTE so this is not scientific but everybody is free to check this). The Beryl was stock and the G38 had a Cobra grip.

The Scar-H on the other hand was a bit weird. One pattern was like a perfect zig-zag line, 5 bullet drift to the right, 5 bullet drift to the left, 5 bullet drift to the right ...

That was indeed a degree of randomness that felt unpredictable because not every series of 20 bullets was like that. Do you have specific weapons you refer to? I would be interested in uncovering the patterns of every weapon anyway just it takes time I don't have atm :D .

I love Bf3 ❤️ and the gunplay feels just great and satisfying. In my opinion the G38/416 for example is much easier to control in WW3 than in Bf3. While other guns feel wild like the Scar (which still is fairly controllable due to the low RoF). Given every gun in WW3 follows a certain pattern as Borreh explained somewhere one can think of each pattern as a line drawn upwards from the first bullets I would decrease the likelihood of drastic deviations from the central path and decrease the likelihood of deviations to the left from the central part be followed by a deviation to the right so that the predictability is increased. Instead I think the overall "strength" (speaking about vertical recoil within a predictable path) of the recoil could be increased a bit more especially over the duration of a burst. Maybe that would make the gunplaye feel more satisfying? Not entirely sure about that.

What may also lead to those weird patterns could be scope sway? Shooting the Scar-H in semi-auto sometimes feels just weird. Like the shots don't land where I aim at. This happens occasionally only though and I start to wonder if the pronounced scope sway has to something with it. Regardless I would like to see an option to "hold your breath"/stop scope sway for a couple of seconds. Sometimes trying to shoot someone in cover with only a small part of the body exposed feels punished by Scope sway. I try to land a couple of precise single shots but the scope sway messes up the consecutive shots. Of course this also a measure of skill to compensate for that but if in the end I think for my self "Screw that I just spray at this guy and by chance a shot lands anyways" it sets strange incentives in my opinions.

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I would say that the best mix of casual and "realism" gameplay is Battlefield 3. It has a bit of everything and makes a good mix. It has a recoil and (to my dislike) a slight random bullet deviation with recoil. 

So far the only game I found that has realistic weapon recoil is RS2: Vietnam, they managed to achieve the most realistic I've seen in a video game. Now I like more thinking and shooting gameplay than gun and run shooter. Everyone has a different liking so finding a best middle ground would be, in my opinion, strong similarity of BF3 gunplay. Currently I feel that I am playing a CoDMW2 in WW3 which is not something that I like. I am not saying that game went into a wrong direction, just to my liking I would be avoiding to play this game.

Again, I don't see WW3 becoming  another Arma or Squad game, but at the same time I also don't see it becoming another CoD game. With fast TTK and armor plates now being meaningless made ww3 a generic gun and run gameplay.  Or putting it simply, just look at BF3 gun play mechanic and more/less copy it. 

Ideally, how I see it.
1) Recoil with random pattern but not too strong (depending on caliber).
2) Full auto firing amplifies point 1) with every 5 bullets fired. So with full auto 20 bullets in a row will make your weapon sway all around. (~1.5 cm on your screen in all direction at random so you have to counter it with mouse moving in opposite direction).
3) Armor plating having a proper penetration mechanics and not just HP. Armor plating getting hit and weaken in top right part but should not lower protection of non-damaged lower left part.
4) Bullets exiting barrel in direction where it's pointing (no random bullet deviation).
5) Standing, crouching and prone have different weapon sway effect when aiming down the sights.  
6) Jumping and shooting should never be possible. 

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22 hours ago, TZoningHard said:

New TTK is pretty shallow and feels really RNG based now.

TTK felt way more RNG before when you would spray at someone and have a random chance of hitting the stomach, which had a massive effect on the outcome of a fight.

 

23 hours ago, Schlagerfreund said:

<snip>

Agree with most of this, I like positioning and flanking to be more important than twitch reactions and being able to full auto 60 rounds.

 

I disagree on the armor system though, if implemented right I like the idea of getting the drop on someone requiring not only that you see them first, but also that you can carefully place your shots around their armor plates. It makes camping in a corner and spraying anyone who runs past less effective, which is good in a game as grey and dull as this where everything just kind of blends together. I do hate the gutshot meta too, but that's easy to fix if the devs want to.

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11 hours ago, HeiligeRobbe said:

Hmm, maybe that depends on the weapon one uses. I just tested that quickly yesterday with the Beryl, G38 and Scar-H, with the Beryl having a high spread and the Scar-H having a high recoil and low spread value (speaking about ingame stats). The Bery and G38 had a very smooth pattern. The G38 goes straight upwards for 7-8 Shots I would say and then drifts to the right and the Beryl tends to drift to the right from the first bullets on (I just shot a couple of magazines into a wall on PTE so this is not scientific but everybody is free to check this). The Beryl was stock and the G38 had a Cobra grip.

The Scar-H on the other hand was a bit weird. One pattern was like a perfect zig-zag line, 5 bullet drift to the right, 5 bullet drift to the left, 5 bullet drift to the right ...

That was indeed a degree of randomness that felt unpredictable because not every series of 20 bullets was like that. Do you have specific weapons you refer to? I would be interested in uncovering the patterns of every weapon anyway just it takes time I don't have atm :D .

I love Bf3 ❤️ and the gunplay feels just great and satisfying. In my opinion the G38/416 for example is much easier to control in WW3 than in Bf3. While other guns feel wild like the Scar (which still is fairly controllable due to the low RoF). Given every gun in WW3 follows a certain pattern as Borreh explained somewhere one can think of each pattern as a line drawn upwards from the first bullets I would decrease the likelihood of drastic deviations from the central path and decrease the likelihood of deviations to the left from the central part be followed by a deviation to the right so that the predictability is increased. Instead I think the overall "strength" (speaking about vertical recoil within a predictable path) of the recoil could be increased a bit more especially over the duration of a burst. Maybe that would make the gunplaye feel more satisfying? Not entirely sure about that.

What may also lead to those weird patterns could be scope sway? Shooting the Scar-H in semi-auto sometimes feels just weird. Like the shots don't land where I aim at. This happens occasionally only though and I start to wonder if the pronounced scope sway has to something with it. Regardless I would like to see an option to "hold your breath"/stop scope sway for a couple of seconds. Sometimes trying to shoot someone in cover with only a small part of the body exposed feels punished by Scope sway. I try to land a couple of precise single shots but the scope sway messes up the consecutive shots. Of course this also a measure of skill to compensate for that but if in the end I think for my self "Screw that I just spray at this guy and by chance a shot lands anyways" it sets strange incentives in my opinions.

The ak-12, DMG, Scar-L  and many others. It does seem like some weapons have a sweet spot, in which they have controllable recoil, like I tested the MSBS-K with the 2x red dot scope, and it seems to have very little recoil and the random horizontal recoil is not as prevalent. But this would mean, only certain load outs would make one weapon its max potential, meaning there would then be no use for using any other. I haven't tested the MSBS-K with other scopes recently, but it seems its just that particular scope that offers best performance. Even a 1x red dot on the DMG for example has ridiculous recoil. Basically, however you look at it, 0.3 recoil was better than this. I just wish 0.3 was improved upon, turned into something at least like Arma recoil, or BF3. 

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On 2/13/2019 at 6:00 AM, MOBBOB said:

Though I do wish armor was better it’s alright now maybe a slight buff by decreasing limb damage.

Limb damage will be decreased in an upcoming patch (from 75% to 60%), headshot damage will be increased by 25%, and in the future we'll take a look at armors and buff them somewhat (we have a number of options here). Increasing the BTK by 1-2 bullets is also a possibility (I'd rather have that done through an armor buff tho).

Overall we'd want to keep the TTK in the low/medium low regions but increase the role of shot placement, so that an efficient and accurate player will have a significant edge over a spraying one while still keeping the player health amounts somewhat realistic/authentic. Once we're satisfied with the TTK/BTK we'll take a look at exact recoil balancing.

 

Ideally, how I see it.


1) Recoil with random pattern but not too strong (depending on caliber).
2) Full auto firing amplifies point 1) with every 5 bullets fired. So with full auto 20 bullets in a row will make your weapon sway all around. (~1.5 cm on your screen in all direction at random so you have to counter it with mouse moving in opposite direction).
3) Armor plating having a proper penetration mechanics and not just HP. Armor plating getting hit and weaken in top right part but should not lower protection of non-damaged lower left part.
4) Bullets exiting barrel in direction where it's pointing (no random bullet deviation).
5) Standing, crouching and prone have different weapon sway effect when aiming down the sights.  
6) Jumping and shooting should never be possible.

 

1) Gathering feedback on the recoil, some like it some hate it, we'll iterate in the future probably.

2) Right now weapons loose stability with each shot after the 3rd, so the recoil increases up to the ~6-8th, at which it is the highest. Previously there was a major sweet spot with minimal recoil at around 2-6th shot so everyone was spraying all the time (we had threads about this). If it is really too much we'll consider lowering the max recoil or increasing the time it takes to reach it.

3) Currently armors have 2 different statistics: absorption and HP. Absorption is the amount of damage the armor takes before "passing it through" to the wearer. Bullets have their own AP value which decided how much of the damage bypassess the armor. This means stronger bullets penetrate and deal full damage while weaker ones (with less AP) are stopped. I think the current system is good enough in design but needs to be tweaked so that the armors are slightly more effective. Armors weakening in given locations would lead to random TTK for both the shooter and the wearer so while logical on paper, I don't think it would be enjoyable without a way to track who has a weakened armor plate where (and somehow showing it to every player).

4) That would require  a total rework of the game's shooting mechanics. It would also make the gunplay siginificantly more hardcore/realistic and it would be too alienating for many players. We're happy with the mechanics we have now and consider it being the matter of fine-tuning instead of rewriting the core gameplay rules. I love games with this mechanic as well but it would be a way too invasive change to the gameplay at this point (the game would play completely differently after it, as well).

5) That's exactly how it is now. All scopes have their own sway that's affected by the player stance. If you think they're too weak then we'll consider increasing them a bit.

6) You can't shoot when jumping - But you can shoot when falling. We had shooting disabled for both jumping and falling up to a few patches ago but that made the game feel extremely clunky.

Edited by Borreh
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Thanks for all those clarifications! It's really good to have more precise information on gameplay mechanics because arguments can be much more precise consequently. If I may, I would want to ask to more minor questions:

1. By now I interpret the recoil stat of a weapon as a measure of how strong it pushes upwards with each shot. I.e. if I fire a single shot the barrel will drift further upwards the higher the recoil value. The spread statistic on the other hand I interpret as measure for the distribution of the maximal climb and position of the crosshair before it begins to reset and the final position after it has reset, i.e. a spread value of 0 would mean that the barrel movement after each shot is exactly the same so that the recoil pattern would be 100% predictable. Are my interpretations somewhat correct?

2. if you say the recoil is at its highest after six to eight shot this means it remains at that maximal level after that?

After I took a look on the forum yesterday evening and saw all those posts by @Ragir and you I felt a lot of gratitude for you guys. Not only is the game amazing already but also you visibly care for your big family of a community so thanks a lot for that! I am trying to convince my gaming buddies to get into the game as well. You deserve the success! 🙂

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2 hours ago, Borreh said:

 

Thanks for the info. I've only played 0.4 a little but I've enjoyed it so far, though I'll echo what others have said about armor feeling a little weak currently.

 

What's the current dev feeling on gut shots? I still don't really understand why they're so devastating from either a realism or balance standpoint, it feels weird switching from another game to WW3 and having snipers focus on your gut or trying to spray down towards the stomach instead of up towards the head.

 

Any thoughts on the current way players can peek while remaining almost invisible? Often all I'll see of another player when getting shot at is a muzzle flash next to a corner. Ideally projectiles would originate from the gun barrel instead of the centre of the camera but I'm not sure how much of a rewrite that would be.

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