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125 HP

Do we need 125 HP?  

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  1. 1. Oh, really?

    • YES
      1
    • NO
      11


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Well, dear developers. That may be not, that you want to hear, but I say that 125 HP is  REALLY, REALLY BAD IDEA to increase TTK.  At least, it looks very strange. Number 100 in most shooters shows the count of health percent. But what shows this???

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I personally haven't played with the new system in PTE so I can't say what the TTK is like, but if people like it, then I think all damage stats should be multiplied by 4/5 so that the health bar goes back to showing a percentage. I'm assuming the devs aren't doing this right now because changing one variable (health) for testing purposes is easier than changing the damage numbers for all the weapons and strikes if they decide to change it again

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On 2/26/2019 at 8:56 AM, nubbits said:

I personally haven't played with the new system in PTE so I can't say what the TTK is like, but if people like it, then I think all damage stats should be multiplied by 4/5 so that the health bar goes back to showing a percentage. I'm assuming the devs aren't doing this right now because changing one variable (health) for testing purposes is easier than changing the damage numbers for all the weapons and strikes if they decide to change it again

Exactly this :)

The 125 HP was just a quick test to try out a possible BTK increase without re-calculating the entire weapon balance. We're reverting to 100 now but we'll probably shuffle the balance to increase the BTK by 1 in the near future.

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54 minutes ago, Borreh said:

Exactly this :)

The 125 HP was just a quick test to try out a possible BTK increase without re-calculating the entire weapon balance. We're reverting to 100 now but we'll probably shuffle the balance to increase the BTK by 1 in the near future.

But this will be change for all types of game modes?

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On 2/28/2019 at 12:27 AM, Borreh said:

Exactly this :)

The 125 HP was just a quick test to try out a possible BTK increase without re-calculating the entire weapon balance. We're reverting to 100 now but we'll probably shuffle the balance to increase the BTK by 1 in the near future.

Just to float an opinion out there, because the 7.62 assault rifles have both a heavier recoil impulse and lower rate of fire, perhaps they can be balanced by giving them a 1 less BTK on the lowest level armour? I am currently mostly using the lower calibre ARs because in CQC they fire faster with same BTK, and at range they have less recoil (when tap firing). Changing this for just lowest level armour could be an interesting modification, perhaps worth testing out.

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7.62x39 already has a small edge over 5.56 in high tier armors where it sometimes gets 1 BTK less on short range. In general we're all for nuances like that but now we're still focused on getting the basic system balanced properly, as armors still feel less useful than they should be.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/4/2019 at 9:56 AM, Borreh said:

7.62x39 already has a small edge over 5.56 in high tier armors where it sometimes gets 1 BTK less on short range. In general we're all for nuances like that but now we're still focused on getting the basic system balanced properly, as armors still feel less useful than they should be.

I came back to the forums even with how toxic and a circle jerk they to try and see if there is any reversal to the TTK.

I really liked the game before and had high hopes for the game. Many of my friends and I have stopped playing because of the TTK.

We like many other players who are not spending all day on forums to feed off each others incorrect opinions, Dislike the realism push.

Most people when we saw this game and got into it were expecting a BF game and when we started playing at launch we had something that was pretty good for a BF like game.

The push for realism is killing the game and coming from some one who really loved to play this game almost everyday I am really disappointed.

Hardcore is mode on BF and COD is not played by competitive players for a reason, Most people do not want to play Hardcore mode BF because it is more twitch shooting over skill and not just aiming but also tactics as a good twitch aimer does not need to use positioning and the game is more about playing around the lag like its part of a meta game almost.

 

Armors only issue was that you could bypass it with stomach shot or shooting people around the armor before .4. Glance shots and stomach shots still have not been fixed but you lower the BTK of the entire body to of the stomach shots which were problem number one with the game for competitive play. 7.62 with high RoF were broken in .1+ after people found out the meta of Beryl and stomach shots from the hip at CQB resulting in insta death as someone rounded the corner prefire but that is mostly lag. Now that applies to the entire body where High RoF is king and is very exploitable when it comes to corners for competitive player.

The solution is simple and many good players say the same thing even out side my group of fix the gut shot first the start messing with TTK last. 6 BTK is the golden zone for chest shots, depending on the game you might have to go higher because of lag problems.

The core gunplay was so good at launch and really carried the rest of the game through all the bugs and crashes. We couldn't get enough of the gunplay but now that is gone as of .4 and the wonkny shooting that over does recoil.

 

People come here with non factual statements which is what a opinion is and participate in a popularity contest in which the devs see as feedback which is harmfull to the game when a bunch of people who don't know what they are talking about get to gather and circle jerk  while attacking every people making factual statements like every other forum I've seen. The number one reason the majority of people stay off forums. (I don't like making rude statements like this but they will hate on me anyways)

If you are not going to at least reverse the TTK then we be out of a FPS game for another month again. I want to love this game again but you are listening to people who would what ever you did was good if it was bad or not and that scares me into thinking this game potential is getting flushed down the toilet.

This game made me really happy at launch, the potential was there even with the low TTK but I waited to see if it could possibly be pulled off even with the many years of FPS development that came before this game would set in stone the left and right limits of what is workable. I wanted to let the devs try it out and test it out because maybe the armor system would make some cool mechanics which it did do before.

 

This is venting from my heart because I really loved playing this game but it seems we will never reach the potential of a alternative BF game. The devs seem to want Insurgency BF too much. (Even in competitive insurgency at diamond no one uses armor in our loadouts, It might just be down to science with armor vs not getting shot at very low TTK)

Edited by KDP

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9 hours ago, KDP said:

I came back to the forums even with how toxic and a circle jerk they to try and see if there is any reversal to the TTK.

I really liked the game before and had high hopes for the game. Many of my friends and I have stopped playing because of the TTK.

We like many other players who are not spending all day on forums to feed off each others incorrect opinions, Dislike the realism push.

Most people when we saw this game and got into it were expecting a BF game and when we started playing at launch we had something that was pretty good for a BF like game.

The push for realism is killing the game and coming from some one who really loved to play this game almost everyday I am really disappointed.

Hardcore is mode on BF and COD is not played by competitive players for a reason, Most people do not want to play Hardcore mode BF because it is more twitch shooting over skill and not just aiming but also tactics as a good twitch aimer does not need to use positioning and the game is more about playing around the lag like its part of a meta game almost.

 

Armors only issue was that you could bypass it with stomach shot or shooting people around the armor before .4. Glance shots and stomach shots still have not been fixed but you lower the BTK of the entire body to of the stomach shots which were problem number one with the game for competitive play. 7.62 with high RoF were broken in .1+ after people found out the meta of Beryl and stomach shots from the hip at CQB resulting in insta death as someone rounded the corner prefire but that is mostly lag. Now that applies to the entire body where High RoF is king and is very exploitable when it comes to corners for competitive player.

The solution is simple and many good players say the same thing even out side my group of fix the gut shot first the start messing with TTK last. 6 BTK is the golden zone for chest shots, depending on the game you might have to go higher because of lag problems.

The core gunplay was so good at launch and really carried the rest of the game through all the bugs and crashes. We couldn't get enough of the gunplay but now that is gone as of .4 and the wonkny shooting that over does recoil.

 

People come here with non factual statements which is what a opinion is and participate in a popularity contest in which the devs see as feedback which is harmfull to the game when a bunch of people who don't know what they are talking about get to gather and circle jerk  while attacking every people making factual statements like every other forum I've seen. The number one reason the majority of people stay off forums. (I don't like making rude statements like this but they will hate on me anyways)

If you are not going to at least reverse the TTK then we be out of a FPS game for another month again. I want to love this game again but you are listening to people who would what ever you did was good if it was bad or not and that scares me into thinking this game potential is getting flushed down the toilet.

This game made me really happy at launch, the potential was there even with the low TTK but I waited to see if it could possibly be pulled off even with the many years of FPS development that came before this game would set in stone the left and right limits of what is workable. I wanted to let the devs try it out and test it out because maybe the armor system would make some cool mechanics which it did do before.

 

This is venting from my heart because I really loved playing this game but it seems we will never reach the potential of a alternative BF game. The devs seem to want Insurgency BF too much. (Even in competitive insurgency at diamond no one uses armor in our loadouts, It might just be down to science with armor vs not getting shot at very low TTK)

TZoningHard, relog please)

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Posted (edited)

We're currently testing a revised TTK which is slightly longer than the current one. It still gives the feeling of a more hardcore BF-style game but you have noticably more time to react. We're still ironing stuff out but it will probably go live with the next update.

 

Truth be told I'd love to add a hardcore mode with 1 hit kills for both infantry and vehicles (save for armors, APSes and everything else we have) and just make everyone happy but we can't divide the playerbase like that at this point :P

Edited by Borreh
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@KDP can you explain where these 6 Bullets to the chest is the golden zone comes from? I really wonder because Bf2 - Bf4 definitely had a lower btk (not factoring in the damage drop over range).

Now, it is hard for me to figure out to which 16/20 vs 16/20 player competitive scene you refer but in the end almost all players play for fun (which can come from a good competition of course). Playing a modern military shooter where I need 6 bullets to kill someone as a baseline would absolutely no fun for me. It basically kills any immersion. And I would guess that the immersion and atmosphere of a game lend to its fun by a huge margin.

On top, the argument that a lower TTK is bad because it favors twitch aiming and positioning does not matter is contradicting your previous competitive argumentation. Why? In a competitive scenario one would assume players of similar skill playing against each other. No matter the actual skill level, you will put yourself at a disadvantage by running in the open and relying on reflexes if you go against an equally good opponent in a better position.

If you notice someone in the opposite team, who is about as good as you are in terms of gun skills, doing what you describe, what would your reaction be? Anticipate where this player is atm, take cover and knock him out with a couple of bullets when he is running around without cover would be my suggestion.

 

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On 3/14/2019 at 5:14 AM, HeiligeRobbe said:

@KDP

On top, the argument that a lower TTK is bad because it favors twitch aiming and positioning does not matter is contradicting your previous competitive argumentation. Why? In a competitive scenario one would assume players of similar skill playing against each other. No matter the actual skill level, you will put yourself at a disadvantage by running in the open and relying on reflexes if you go against an equally good opponent in a better position.

Finally, someone who understands. The argument that low TTK allows bad players to kill good players is moot. At equal levels of mechanical skill (reaction and aiming), the determining factor in winning an engagement is the player's intelligence. The ability to predict, react, mislead, and catch an opponent off guard are what separate good players from great players. 

Additionally, low TTK can help players who may be disabled or otherwise have "potato aim" (which honestly can be fixed half the time just by lowering sensitivity) still compete and give them a viable method of participating by playing more tactical and using intellectual skill rather than mechanical skill. 

There's a reason why CSGO is the biggest competitive shooter. The same touted "advantages" of higher TTK such as making engagements require superior aiming ability apply to low TTK as well. Except in low TTK not only does the game require extremely good aiming, but it requires extremely fast aiming, and requires more intelligent and strategic play, since you don't have the buffer of a high health pool allowing careless movement. 

Conversely, there's a reason why all the biggest casual shooters (as in, the ones that are primarily populated by children and non-gamers) have high TTK.. they allow stupid people and people who don't want to put any mental effort into the game to still perform relatively well with a more forgiving environment that doesn't punish bad gameplay as much. 

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