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tynblpb

Gunplay. My thoughts.

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In general I do like gunplay in WW3. But there are few aspects of gunplay that, IMO, affect gameplay in kinda negative way i.e. promote run'n'gunning.

For example, if u try to shoot fullauto when standing still and when strafing(both when ADS), u'll see, that bullets dispersal areas  are the same. So why should u stay still in firefights if u can strafe while shooting and be as accurate? Well, if u r not good with moving, u still can shoot while standing, crouched down and prone. Mb game will somehow reward u for that? No, even when u r lying down dispersion area is the same as if u r strafing. The less recoil weapon has the more clear it is. Finest example - MSBS-B. 

By my logic, strafing while ADS and shooting should be penalized with ~x2 times increased recoil. Mainly horizontal. On the contrary crouching and prone should be rewarded with x1.5 for crouching and x2 for prone overall recoil decreasing. It'll if even a little but promote slowing down gameplay in terms of firefight and force ppl to shoot while staying if they want to hit anyone. Or at least switch to bursting when stopping for a short time.

Another thing is customization. There are 2 top-tier grips: Juno- and Monster- grips. So what's the need in all other grips if there are must-have attachments?

Why don't u, devs, divide grips in 2 large groups. Let's call them Monster-group  and Potato-group. They will be divided by the handling technique. Potato-group is handled "palm up", and Monster-group is handled pistol-grip like. Each group will have unique features.

For Potatoes it'll be greatly reduced horizontal recoil, but almost non-existent reduction of vertical recoil. Monster will have their pros and cons directly opposite.  So, if u like Beryl for example, ur choice will be Potatoes as they make ur gun much precise. For SA80 best choice will be Monsters. But, if u r pervert and can easily control recoil u can always have SA80 with Potato-grip and have ur pleasure drawing precisely vertical lines when shooting fullauto.

Plus, why don't u devs, add one feature to forearms? Long forearms will have decreased time to switch to chosen weapon and in the same time increased ADS time. And short forearms will be direct opposite.

I hope that at least something from what've been typed above someone will count interesting. 

 

Edited by tynblpb

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The recoil doesn't magically increase or decrease because you kneel or prone.

Grips are preference and style I use The cobra for the slight ADS buff. Only use the juno when the gun has a huge spread.

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3 часа назад, TZoningHard сказал:

The recoil doesn't magically increase or decrease because you kneel or prone.

?

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11 минут назад, TZoningHard сказал:

do you shoot guns?

No. Laws here in Russia aren't so liberal in terms of rifled guns ownership.

Let me guess. U'll try to convince me, that shooting while staying and when u r in stable position don't differ that much if we talk about bullets dispersion? Don't even try. Don't waste both my and ur time.

Edited by tynblpb

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53 минуты назад, TZoningHard сказал:

do you shoot guns?

I shot some years ago. And yes, fixing your assault rifle even with magazine on the ground (which is not recommended, but still in use) greatly reduces recoil and sway.
And moving increases sway a lot.

Edited by †FeuerEuphorie†

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5 часов назад, tynblpb сказал:

In general I do like gunplay in WW3. But there are few aspects of gunplay that, IMO, affect gameplay in kinda negative way i.e. promote run'n'gunning.

For example, if u try to shoot fullauto when standing still and when strafing(both when ADS), u'll see, that bullets dispersal areas  are the same. So why should u stay still in firefights if u can strafing while shooting and be as accurate? Well, if u r not good with moving, u still can shoot while standing, crouched down and prone. Mb game will somehow reward u for that? No, even when u r lying down dispersion area is the same as if u r strafing. There less recoil weapon has the more clear it is. Finest example - MSBS-B. 

By my logic, strafing while ADS and shooting should be penalized with ~x2 times increased recoil. Mainly horizontal. On the contrary crouching and prone should be rewarded with x1.5 for crouching and x2 for prone overall recoil decreasing. It'll if even a little but promote slowing down gameplay in terms of firefight and force ppl to shoot while staying if they want to hit anyone. Or at least switch to bursting when stopping for a short time.

Another thing is customization. There are 2 top-tier grips: Juno- and Monster- grips. So what's the need in all other grips if there are must-have attachments?

Why don't u, devs, divide grips in 2 large groups. Let's call them Monster-group  and Potato-group. They will be divided by the handling technique. Potato-group is handled "palm up", and Monster-group is handled pistol-grip like. Each group will have unique features.

For Potatoes it'll be greatly reduced horizontal recoil, but almost non-existent reduction of vertical recoil. Monster will have their pros and cons directly opposite.  So, if u like Beryl for example, ur choice will be Potatoes as they make ur gun much precise. For SA80 best choice will be Monsters. But, if u r pervert and can easily control recoil u can always have SA80 with Potato-grip and have ur pleasure drawing precisely vertical lines when shooting fullauto.

Plus, why don't u devs, add one feature to forearms? Long forearms will have decreased time to switch to chosen weapon and in the same time increased ADS time. And short forearms will be direct opposite.

I hope that at least something from what've been typed above someone will count interesting. 

I partially agree. In WW3 the best foregrip is Juno. And it be cool, if foregrips will be balanced, while having different bonuses. As in BF4, for example.

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15 hours ago, tynblpb said:

In general I do like gunplay in WW3. But there are few aspects of gunplay that, IMO, affect gameplay in kinda negative way i.e. promote run'n'gunning.

For example, if u try to shoot fullauto when standing still and when strafing(both when ADS), u'll see, that bullets dispersal areas  are the same. So why should u stay still in firefights if u can strafing while shooting and be as accurate? Well, if u r not good with moving, u still can shoot while standing, crouched down and prone. Mb game will somehow reward u for that? No, even when u r lying down dispersion area is the same as if u r strafing. There less recoil weapon has the more clear it is. Finest example - MSBS-B. 

By my logic, strafing while ADS and shooting should be penalized with ~x2 times increased recoil. Mainly horizontal. On the contrary crouching and prone should be rewarded with x1.5 for crouching and x2 for prone overall recoil decreasing. It'll if even a little but promote slowing down gameplay in terms of firefight and force ppl to shoot while staying if they want to hit anyone. Or at least switch to bursting when stopping for a short time.

Another thing is customization. There are 2 top-tier grips: Juno- and Monster- grips. So what's the need in all other grips if there are must-have attachments?

Why don't u, devs, divide grips in 2 large groups. Let's call them Monster-group  and Potato-group. They will be divided by the handling technique. Potato-group is handled "palm up", and Monster-group is handled pistol-grip like. Each group will have unique features.

For Potatoes it'll be greatly reduced horizontal recoil, but almost non-existent reduction of vertical recoil. Monster will have their pros and cons directly opposite.  So, if u like Beryl for example, ur choice will be Potatoes as they make ur gun much precise. For SA80 best choice will be Monsters. But, if u r pervert and can easily control recoil u can always have SA80 with Potato-grip and have ur pleasure drawing precisely vertical lines when shooting fullauto.

Plus, why don't u devs, add one feature to forearms? Long forearms will have decreased time to switch to chosen weapon and in the same time increased ADS time. And short forearms will be direct opposite.

I hope that at least something from what've been typed above someone will count interesting. 

 

1. Yeah, reducing recoil/spread from changing stance would be great

2. I've personally found three grips that I choose between: monster, juno and cobra.

Monster: recoil, fits on some weapons that don't have room for juno

Juno: recoil, looks cool

Cobra: ADS time.

If the other grips are going to function differently then yeah it should be a more interesting choice, otherwise like you said just group them (with addition of CQC grips that focus on ADS speed)

3. Different arm lengths? Wut? I actually enjoy spending time customising all my stuff, but I think that's taking it too far. There are other much better uses of time.

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lets just destroy the games gunplay even more guys, Im sure this will get more people to keep playing.

I shoot almost every day now, used to do competition shooting as well, a gun does not gain extra recoil and the current recoil in game is already unnaturally high

One its not based in reality so thats argument is null an void. Two you want to take away a style gameplay because you have a hard time trying to fight against good players who use movement.

This is echo of what happened in squad were the lesser skilled players complained to get more mechanics to limit good players from killing them. Keep doing this and their wont be any skilled players still around and the player base will be severely limited. There is a reason Squads Competitive scene is dead even after every time people try to throw  tourney. Most of the people who come to those tourneys do it ironically and haven't played squad in years and just sit their shit talking it as they crush the die hard squad fanbois who asked for the mechanics still which lead to them whining then giving up on making esports scene again.

Movement becomes the only counter to racing against another player when it only takes 3 bullets to kill. Both players are racing to get that burst off on each other so if you are bad at shooting and cant move then you die. This is why positioning is weak in low TTK games because standing still behind cover is a liability when it takes .29 seconds of exposure to kill another players vs .6 and higher of having to expose your self to kill a player which means running and gunning cant be as viable because the time it takes to kill a person makes you slow down and straight reflex aiming can not be abused as hard.

From 5 months ago I was saying that movement beats armor in this game and that it needed to be fixed which destroying the gun game so far didnt help and just made it easier to kill people with the removal of armor.

Accuracy and handling of the weapons is already worse then launch and isn't in good shape we shouldn't kill the last good thing about the game that it had over Battlefield which is skilled shooting. 2x the recoil is ridiculous and stabilizing a gun helps aim easier it not compensate for recoil.

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1 час назад, TZoningHard сказал:

a gun does not gain extra recoil

If you mean difference in recoil between standing and moving, ofc you are right. I said about the sway, that increases in movement drastically.

1 час назад, TZoningHard сказал:

Two you want to take away a style gameplay because you have a hard time trying to fight against good players who use movement.

Wrong suppose. Without modesty, I am in the top of players novadays. Not as good as ex-Kenny, for example, but not as bad to have problems with anybody.

1 час назад, TZoningHard сказал:

This is why positioning is weak in low TTK games because standing still behind cover is a liability when it takes .29 seconds of exposure to kill another players vs .6 and higher of having to expose your self to kill a player which means running and gunning cant be as viable because the time it takes to kill a person makes you slow down and straight reflex aiming can not be abused as hard.

Try to run and gun against a good ambush in count at least of 2 people at the corners. You will be obliterated, I promise, and no superhuman reaction will help you.

1 час назад, TZoningHard сказал:

2x the recoil is ridiculous and stabilizing a gun helps aim easier it not compensate for recoil

I agree, recoil does not increase, when moving ADS, only the sway.

Edited by †FeuerEuphorie†

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1 час назад, TZoningHard сказал:

lets just destroy the games gunplay even more guys, Im sure this will get more people to keep playing.

To remove any misunderstanding, OK?

I'm against recoil increasing, when moving.

I'm pro Planetside2-like spread system, when you have different spread both for hipfire/ADS, stand/crouch/proning and standing/moving. And their combination, ofcourse.
That the topicstarter already wrote.

I'm also pro different foregrips with different bonuses. Not using Juno on every weapon.

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How do you measure if recoil is unnaturally high in a video game? I never shot a gun so I have no idea how recoil actually feels but I would assume that the ways to replicate this feeling in a video game where you have nothing but a visual feedback is fairly limited. So I am really curious why one would say the recoil in WW3 is unnaturally high?

In my opinion it is extremely easy to compensate for the recoil. It takes like no effort at all and I am usually not good at recoil compensation in other FPS games. So if someone claims to be a very good player and complains about the recoil in the game at the same time this leaves me puzzled.

6 minutes ago, †FeuerEuphorie† said:

To remove any misunderstanding, OK?

I'm against recoil increasing, when moving.

I'm pro Planetside2-like spread system, when you have different spread both for hipfire/ADS, stand/crouch/proning and standing/moving. And their combination, ofcourse.
That the topicstarter already wrote.

I'm also pro different foregrips with different bonuses. Not using Juno on every weapon.

I agree on every point?

@TZoningHard Your argument about movement and how two players race each other can only be any relevant in really close quarter engagements. Can you explain where this would happen in Warzone? Maybe in the Warsaw Mall or Senate building on Moscow? I have no idea as I never experienced something like that. Yes movement matters a lot, but from my experience it matters to get into cover and outposition your opponent not to outrace him. So I would again be curious where this would be applicable. Also there would be another way to balance this out: Reduce the speed of light loadouts slightly. With medium and heavy loadouts it is hard to outrace anyone anyway.

As I wrote in maddini's thread I think the grips could have more pronounced roles, e.g.:

- Reduce the spread significantly and the recoil only marginally to make the recoil even more predictable.

- Reduce the sway significantly and the recoil slightly to allow for good tapping while standing.

- Reduce the vertical recoil significantly and the spread marginally for better full auto spraying.

- Reduce the hipfire spread significantly for better hipfire.

- Reduce the recoil and spread increase for better short bursts.

... I am sure one can think of other was to modify a gun's behaviour to fit certain playstyles and the same should hold the barrel length where the long barrels are dominating atm I think.

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8 часов назад, TZoningHard сказал:

Two you want to take away a style gameplay because you have a hard time trying to fight against good players who use movement.

Yep. Definitely. Me having hard time trying to fight off good players, so I'm trying to slow down gunplay.

20190405203730_1.thumb.jpg.25b128a0a8ed95fd83eae32e517c823a.jpg

  • Haha 1

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