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Salt Lord

Revert battle bot and Leviathan nerf.

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Posted (edited)

I'm making this post here because PTE is about to go to live in 1 or 2 days so i doubt they will have time to change anything. So recently in PTE battle bot and leviathan got a nerf which allows it's optics to be destroyed. This is a very dumb and unnecessary nerf that wasn't even needed. First the UGV's were already very easy to kill. 1 tandem will one hit leviathan and do at least 70% ish of a battle bot's HP. Battle bot is already extremely slow and can't even avoid most RPG shots because of it's slow speed which makes it very easy to kill. Leviathan is fast but has very low health so even normal gunfire can take it out pretty quick. 

Even without that, both battle bot and leviathan can't get out of a reaper jammer range before they get disabled. A reaper only costs 500bp so you can basically jam both bots and take them out without much or even any effort with a jammer. 

So after all this, why did you nerf it even more? With this nerf Battle bot will suffer extremely hard because it's super slow and if it's optics are taken out, it can't do shit and is basically a free kill since it can't escape anything with it's slow speed. Leviathan suffers a little less but still will get absolutely fucked by a RPG if it's optics are destroyed which is easy to do. Since it has low health, once it's optics are gone it will have a hard time seeing where to drive and will be taken out without before the driver can to do anything. 

It's easy to destroy sights and since they only have 1 optic, once it's destroyed the driver has the drive the UGV all the way back to repair station or the driver itself every time it gets destroyed. That just ruins the fun of using it when you can literally be forced to go back to Base 5 seconds after seing your first targets because one of them managed to destroy your optic. Once people learn you can destroy it, people will just shoot it's optics as soon as the UGV comes and it will be forced back to Base over and over again without even being in battle for more than 10 seconds 

So basically now you don't even need to destroy the thing. All you need to do is shoot the optic and it will be forced to drive back to Base and repair over and over again. 

This is a very dumb and unnecessary nerf in my opinion and should be reverted ASAP.

Edited by Salt Lord

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U agreed to increase UCAS-D price. Now suffer!

And no I don't think adding of destructible optic was unneeded move. It's me who is running with RPG with tandem grenade added to loadout. Usually most part of players is running with ARs and don't care about vehicles. Manned or unmanned doesn't rly matter. U have to kill them 1-2 sometime 3 times to force them to switch to  kit with RPG equipped. Well, if u killed few players using UGV, what else u want?  Be tough as tank?

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combat drones ARE NOT tanks.

They are weak but agile drones, so avoid close cobmat and stay at range

29 minutes ago, Salt Lord said:

A reaper only costs 500bp

just 1 out of 10 players uses it. btw combat drones cost 2000-2500 BP, which is not really much

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Atway said:

combat drones ARE NOT tanks.

They are weak but agile drones, so avoid close cobmat and stay at range

just 1 out of 10 players uses it. btw combat drones cost 2000-2500 BP, which is not really much

And nerf a thing because players don't use jammers? That's a dumb argument and a UGV can cost up to 3500+ depending on what RCWS you are using. Also you say agile but then you clearly haven't used battle bot in a while 

 

2 hours ago, tynblpb said:

U agreed to increase UCAS-D price. Now suffer!

And no I don't think adding of destructible optic was unneeded move. It's me who is running with RPG with tandem grenade added to loadout. Usually most part of players is running with ARs and don't care about vehicles. Manned or unmanned doesn't rly matter. U have to kill them 1-2 sometime 3 times to force them to switch to  kit with RPG equipped. Well, if u killed few players using UGV, what else u want?  Be tough as tank?

It's not even close to being as tough as a tank and you can easily take them out with guns if you focus fire or use something with high caliber if you don't want RPG or as I said before you can use a 500 point jammer to stop them. Also why nerf something because most players ignore it until they get killed? By that logic all vehicles should be nerfed 

Edited by Salt Lord

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But jammers don't kill, they only disable. You can just bring up the Drones interface again, after jammer is done and use your drone again.... right?

 

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20 minutes ago, trig0tron said:

But jammers don't kill, they only disable. You can just bring up the Drones interface again, after jammer is done and use your drone again.... right?

 

Reapers has a 30 second duration i think so that literally 25 seconds of it being able to do nothing while enemy team can just shoot at it. Even with the whole map jammer which has a 15 second duration it's still more than enough time. It's basically already dead when the jamming is over

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Battle bots are easymode but jammers are pressing a button counter something isn't adding anything to the game. Jammers dont really add interaction to the game, saying they have a cost just make its Rock Paper Scissors game situation where one thing counters another in a circle instead of bringing player interaction.

Having optics to shoot out makes battlebots less of a ammo waste where you have to spend 100 rounds to kill it.

Slowing down vehicles is the right call if they are tanky, add a APS to the Battle bot along with optics to shoot out and possible mobility kill options along with weak points for infantry weapons so you dont have to spend all you ammo to kill a BB. Would make interacting with them more then press 6,7,8, or 9 or expend most of your ammo to kill it. Jamming should be a hindrance not a hardcounter if they are in the game at all even if drones are easymode.

Also add that UGVs only take 1 damage per bolter shot. You can make 7.62 do 1.2 and bolters do 3-5. Spraying down a UGV with 100 belt fed rounds that takes 10 seconds or 15 for ARs who reload and then doing 1 damage every 2 seconds with a bolter is a why even try moment.

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Maybe the UGV could go into a 'lock down' state when jammed. When in lock down mode, metal flaps cover the optics so they can't be hit. Getting the optics hit while jammed is double cheese, so this would stop that from happening and creates two strategies for fighting UGVs:

1. Use jammer, and coordinate with RPGs

2. Shoot for optics

Each option then balances these against other vehicles so that they're still relatively hard for the layman to destroy. A noob with a rifle based loadout and jammer can't just jam a UGV and spam shoot the optics at close range, they have to either be skilled enough to destroy the optics (if the UGV is staying still that's on the driver) or co-ordinate with team mates to jam it while an ally moves in with an RPG (this rewards teamwork on both sides: to defend the UGV while jammed the player needs to be working with their team rather than going alone). Also, if a player is carrying an RPG and a jammer, then there is a case to be made that they deserve to kill the vehicle if it is not supported by the team.

Either way, all these options are purely theoretical until we actually test it with the full player count on live servers, and this is one of the more higher level things in gameplay that most noobs won't concern themselves with so we can probably wait this one out.

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23 hours ago, Salt Lord said:

So basically now you don't even need to destroy the thing. All you need to do is shoot the optic and it will be forced to drive back to Base and repair over and over again. 

We've responded to your feedback by increasing the optics damage resistance, so it won't be that easy in 0.6.14 [this is internal numbering, will be live in the future update - Ragir]

Also, you don't have to come back to the base anymore, UGVs can be repaired in the same way as armored vehicles. Just get close to it and press [4].

 

23 hours ago, Salt Lord said:

Even without that, both battle bot and leviathan can't get out of a reaper jammer range before they get disabled. A reaper only costs 500bp so you can basically jam both bots and take them out without much or even any effort with a jammer. 

Jammers are a hot topic in the studio right now and they will be certainly revamped in the future. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/14/2019 at 2:23 PM, Kony said:

We've responded to your feedback by increasing the optics damage resistance, so it won't be that easy in 0.6.14 [this is internal numbering, will be live in the future update - Ragir]

Also, you don't have to come back to the base anymore, UGVs can be repaired in the same way as armored vehicles. Just get close to it and press [4].

 

Jammers are a hot topic in the studio right now and they will be certainly revamped in the future. 

 

Sorry to be a dick to you, but you guys need to grow some back bone. 

 

All of those arguments are.. Let's just say "invalid". "Press one button to disable a heli drone" right okay. Think about this: You are flying a heli drone that fires rockets like an automatic rifle, you just press and hold. You got thermal vision to make it easier to identify your target and all you gotta do is press left mouse button to fuck everything you see. It's the exact same thing. Don't get me wrong i can totally understand the reasons and frustration behind it. You spend all that bp for a vehicle that you just loose without being able to do anything. On the other hand the only effective counter is a whole area jam, which is also not cheap. The smaller jam areas you can fly out, cause you have enough time. If you don't fly out then it's bad piloting and should be punished as it is now. 

 

Let's just pretend like you found a nice solution that everybody is happy with. Okay so the result is, that you stand there for 10 minutes and try to shoot one heli drone - ace. 


My suggestion: Leave the jammers as they are. Add a minimap indicator for enemy jams, so you can see the shortest route to escape the jam and add some sort of "hovering" mechanic where the drone remains in a stable position, if the pilot managed to roughly streight it up or land it and then he can re-connect to it later, if it's not destroyed. If he fails to put it in a stable state before the connection lost, then it'll obviously just crash to the ground. 

 

Again sorry to be so harsh, love this game but i think some players are pussies and whine about everything. 

Edited by maddinii

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On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 3:23 PM, Kony said:

We've responded to your feedback by increasing the optics damage resistance, so it won't be that easy in 0.6.14 [this is internal numbering, will be live in the future update - Ragir]

Also, you don't have to come back to the base anymore, UGVs can be repaired in the same way as armored vehicles. Just get close to it and press [4].

 

Jammers are a hot topic in the studio right now and they will be certainly revamped in the future. 

ok thanks for quick response 

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54 minutes ago, maddinii said:

 

Sorry to be a dick to you, but you guys need to grow some back bone. 

 

All of those arguments are.. Let's just say "invalid". "Press one button to disable a heli drone" right okay. Think about this: You are flying a heli drone that fires rockets like an automatic rifle, you just press and hold. You got thermal vision to make it easier to identify your target and all you gotta do is press left mouse button to fuck everything you see. It's the exact same thing. Don't get me wrong i can totally understand the reasons and frustration behind it. You spend all that bp for a vehicle that you just loose without being able to do anything. On the other hand the only effective counter is a whole area jam, which is also not cheap. The smaller jam areas you can fly out, cause you have enough time. If you don't fly out then it's bad piloting and should be punished as it is now. 

 

Let's just pretend like you found a nice solution that everybody is happy with. Okay so the result is, that you stand there for 10 minutes and try to shoot one heli drone - ace. 


My suggestion: Leave the jammers as they are. Add a minimap indicator for enemy jams, so you can see the shortest route to escape the jam and add some sort of "hovering" mechanic where the drone remains in a stable position, if the pilot managed to roughly streight it up or land it and then he can re-connect to it later, if it's not destroyed. If he fails to put it in a stable state before the connection lost, then it'll obviously just crash to the ground. 

 

Again sorry to be so harsh, love this game but i think some players are pussies and whine about everything. 

this post wasn't even about heli drone and this change only effects Battlebot and Leviathan so what has heli drone anything to do with this?

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1 minute ago, Salt Lord said:

this post wasn't even about heli drone and this change only effects Battlebot and Leviathan so what has heli drone anything to do with this?

 

The heli drone started the whole "jammers op" thing in the first place on the PTE. 

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2 minutes ago, maddinii said:

 

The heli drone started the whole "jammers op" thing in the first place on the PTE. 

Yes but i never said nerf jammers, i only wanted the change where optics can be destroyed on battle bot and leviathan reverted. Only used jammers as an example for why there were no where near OP

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