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Andromeda

This Games Two Biggest Issues.

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Firstly, once again. Well done, the most recent update has been superb! Finally more players, and even my friends are playing it! You've really fleshed the game out. But having been playing the game since day 1. And the earliest tech demos, I have founded the two BIGGEST issues in this game. 

 

Issue A: The game doesn't know what it wants to be.

Issue B: The game is very clunky and no system, game engine or current tech could ever smooth this out, things need to change.  I'm going to break these two issues down now with things that contribute to the major issues. Both Issue A and B are even linked. 

 

Issue A; The game clearly has some form of realistic vibe, no minimap, gun handling and ballistics etc. However this is having a detrimental impact on the game. The gun handling and armor is fine. The issues arise when you consider the map design and radar. Games such as Call of Duty, Battlefield and CSGO (There are many more I can list) Keep the player orientated in battle, regardless of the playable map.  

Right now, I can tell you - Players are having issues orientate them self, how do I know? Because 90% of the kills I get, are on unsuspecting players - And the majority of my deaths are from players I didn't even know where in the vicinity. This should not be a common occurrence in a FPS shooter ever. So, I asked my self why is this happening - and I went and played the aforementioned games. The answer? All the games have a radar, and in all the games, a players position would be given away when discharging their gun.

In turn, I'm lead to believe you NEED to add a radar, because hear me out - In real life, soldiers and police don't have this issue. No one, engaged in a firefight has this issue? Don't believe me, watch any helmet or body camera footage. Even in Airsoft, this amount of disorientation is not present. Heck, the only time this sort of disorientation happens is when you are a GI in jungle that speaks Vietnamese. But why are we not disorientated in real world gun fights (Minus the ringing ears, concisions which are common place in actual battlefields)? How do people in real life, have a rough idea of where the armed opponent is, when obviously we don't have a minimap?  Senses, we have a lot of senses. And these senses can't be simulated, or stimulated in a game. You can't simulate every sound, objects moving, shadow in a way that enables a player to react accordingly. In turn, I propose a minimap is added to assist with 3D Spotting, to reduce disorientation. Because honestly a lot of kills are dissatisfying. Today, I was able to kill 3 people in a room, ad between each kill I was able to reload, why? Because even though there was other hostiles in the room, they were completely unaware that their teammates where dying, despite me shooting my unsuppressed gun, in the same room practically next to them - they had little to no idea I was there. This should not happen. 

You can confirm this further, by playing Battlefield 4's Hardcore game mode, I tend to find that I die more due to disorientation, nowhere near as much as I see people dying in WW3, but near enough for there to be a correlation. 

Issue B; Back when you did the Discord Q&A , I asked you the question "Will map design complement vehicular gameplay?" (Or a question along those lines) The response? "Yes", you claimed the maps would complement the vehicle gameplay, but honestly? They don't. And so, again. I asked my self why? I specifically went and played Battlefield 4 on similar maps. And here's what I found (and your recent update proves me theory) - Siege of Shanghai being one of the more comparable ones to a map such as Berlin - What I've found is, you've done what I would do. You've congested the map with detail. I get that the in game universe is at war, and there in turn is equipment and craters etc. However, due to their clunkyly and boxy geometry, I find navigating the maps to be extremely difficult, and when you link this to the disorientation, you can soon find your self very overwhelmed. Vehicles are not overpowered in this game, so when you are being shot at by infantry? Stuck on a shipping container? it gets very annoying. And while there is annoying objects in Battlefield 4's Siege of Shanghai, they are in no way as common. But, how did you recent update reaffirm this point? 

I also compared Smolensk to Zavod 311, and what did I find? The vehicle gameplay in both maps is perfect! Infantry can use dense groups of trees to divert away from IFVs and tanks, whilst tanks can make use of the open and clear geography of the area. I found that when playing the BTR, in both games, the experience was surprisingly similar, just in the case of WW3's Smolensk? The gameplay was actually better, because it was more balanced. In Battlefield 4, in the MBT, I can literally be unstoppable. In WW3, Infantry have a really good chance. In fact, Smolensk is WW3's Utopian map for ideal gameplay. 

So, in conclusion, the biggest issues are orientation and clunkiness. 

TL;DR I compared WW3 to Battlefield and figured out why Battlefield is more fun. I'm convinced that the sooner you address them issues, the sooner more players will arrive. Moreover, targeting a more causal player bases primary will acquire more players. Have two gamemodes, similar to Casual and Hardcore. Where one has 3D Spotting and minimap whereas one doesn't. Maybe also reduce weapon power by 20%. 

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37 минут назад, Andromeda сказал:

Today, I was able to kill 3 people in a room, ad between each kill I was able to reload, why? Because even though there was other hostiles in the room, they were completely unaware that their teammates where dying, despite me shooting my unsuppressed gun, in the same room practically next to them - they had little to no idea I was there

Because they are noobs.

37 минут назад, Andromeda сказал:

And the majority of my deaths are from players I didn't even know where in the vicinity.

U r either, look above, or u simply don't know the map.

37 минут назад, Andromeda сказал:

Have two gamemodes, similar to Casual and Hardcore. Where one has 3D Spotting and minimap whereas one doesn't.

U know what? Better return to BF. Don't even try to turn WW3 in some kind of scorched BFesque dorito-shooter.

Edited by tynblpb

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1 minute ago, tynblpb said:

Because they are noobs.

U r either, look above, or u simply don't know the map.

U know what? Better return to BF. Don't even try to turn WW3 and some kind of scorched BFesque dorito-shooter.

Yeah no, you can't attribute or justify bad game design with "players are noob" that's now how this works. 

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Your elaboration is not in line with your first argument by the way.
While I do believe the game does not really have a direction right now, is it an arcade shooter? Is it more hardcore? Is it a (small scale) mil-sim? 
Don't get me wrong I think the game is great in its own place, it just feels like something is missing.

 

The orientation part I don't really agree with, because map awareness  has to do with vision and audio design. While I agree with the fact that senses can't be simulated, a lot of it can be through great audio design. World War 3 doesn't have the best audio design, but not in the way you'd think. The weapon sounds might not be the best, but that's not my problem. I'd like to able to hear where people are shooting/moving from. For example: I'm inside the house from the TDM Berlin map standing against a wall; I can hear people walking from the other side of the wall, because there is nothing in the game that stops the sound from going straight through said wall. Sometimes you can't differentiate whether an enemy is inside or outside a building. It's not even a muffled sound or something. But this could be a development thing and get fixed someday.
And then I'm going to peek behind a door frame and they are up in my face all of the sudden; while I was thinking they were outside somewhere. Gun sounds don't have this either; no sounds bouncing off walls or terrain. When you are getting shot and manage to get in cover, a lot of the times you will have no idea where you actually got shot from and you'll have to peek and get shot in the face.

 

Great job on the vehicles part; if the devs said vehicle gameplay is complemented in the maps then they have pretty much failed in a lot of the "older" maps.
I'd say not because you get stuck a lot, like the original poster said, but there are just way too many obstacles in the way and tanks don't get to move around freely. 
That's because of the craters and ALL THE MF'ing traffic things, Tank Traps and  these huge freaking walls on Warsaw, sometimes even rubble and debris (looking at you Berlin, north and south of C2). Yes the traffic things look cool, but they are way too common and just stand in the way most of the time.
They either have to take that statement back or redesign some maps.

 

Vehicles feel like they have to go down a set path, only to get f'ed up the shitter by 5+ men with RPG's, especially when you have been in the tank for a while and everyone knows where you and your tank are. And when you are able to make it out alive the place you came from has even more RPG's ready AND the area will be full of AT mines.

To reduce this I'd say put a restriction on the amount of RPG's in the game or at least one area, kind of like in Squad. In Squad you can have only 2 Light Anti Tanks per squad and 2 Heavy AT's per team. In that game you have to coordinate and work together to take out heavy armor threats. Instead of just bombard it with RPG's and airstrikes by literally everyone in the game

 

5 hours ago, Hybed said:

What? Gun handling is NOT fine, that shit is so random

learn to aim, add grips or longer barrels to your gun, go prone with a bipod. Shoot in controlled bursts

 

Anyways I'm done ranting about sound design, let me know your opinions about this

 

[edit] also, please stop comparing this game to battlefield, it's not trying to replicate anything of that game.

Edited by Matt_dOvale

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IDK what you guys are talking about I find it fine. Usually when getting shot at you just need to consider which nearby objectives the enemy would be coming from, keep in mind which pieces of cover are the best choices in each direction.

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Just now, nubbits said:

IDK what you guys are talking about I find it fine. Usually when getting shot at you just need to consider which nearby objectives the enemy would be coming from, keep in mind which pieces of cover are the best choices in each direction.

mainly talking TDM here about the sounds. But I like getting tactical in these types of games

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Just now, Matt_dOvale said:

mainly talking TDM here about the sounds. But I like getting tactical in these types of games

Yeah, TDM is a bit weirder

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On 5/18/2019 at 1:08 AM, Matt_dOvale said:

Your elaboration is not in line with your first argument by the way.
While I do believe the game does not really have a direction right now, is it an arcade shooter? Is it more hardcore? Is it a (small scale) mil-sim? 
Don't get me wrong I think the game is great in its own place, it just feels like something is missing.

 

The orientation part I don't really agree with, because map awareness  has to do with vision and audio design. While I agree with the fact that senses can't be simulated, a lot of it can be through great audio design. World War 3 doesn't have the best audio design, but not in the way you'd think. The weapon sounds might not be the best, but that's not my problem. I'd like to able to hear where people are shooting/moving from. For example: I'm inside the house from the TDM Berlin map standing against a wall; I can hear people walking from the other side of the wall, because there is nothing in the game that stops the sound from going straight through said wall. Sometimes you can't differentiate whether an enemy is inside or outside a building. It's not even a muffled sound or something. But this could be a development thing and get fixed someday.
And then I'm going to peek behind a door frame and they are up in my face all of the sudden; while I was thinking they were outside somewhere. Gun sounds don't have this either; no sounds bouncing off walls or terrain. When you are getting shot and manage to get in cover, a lot of the times you will have no idea where you actually got shot from and you'll have to peek and get shot in the face.

 

Great job on the vehicles part; if the devs said vehicle gameplay is complemented in the maps then they have pretty much failed in a lot of the "older" maps.
I'd say not because you get stuck a lot, like the original poster said, but there are just way too many obstacles in the way and tanks don't get to move around freely. 
That's because of the craters and ALL THE MF'ing traffic things, Tank Traps and  these huge freaking walls on Warsaw, sometimes even rubble and debris (looking at you Berlin, north and south of C2). Yes the traffic things look cool, but they are way too common and just stand in the way most of the time.
They either have to take that statement back or redesign some maps.

 

Vehicles feel like they have to go down a set path, only to get f'ed up the shitter by 5+ men with RPG's, especially when you have been in the tank for a while and everyone knows where you and your tank are. And when you are able to make it out alive the place you came from has even more RPG's ready AND the area will be full of AT mines.

To reduce this I'd say put a restriction on the amount of RPG's in the game or at least one area, kind of like in Squad. In Squad you can have only 2 Light Anti Tanks per squad and 2 Heavy AT's per team. In that game you have to coordinate and work together to take out heavy armor threats. Instead of just bombard it with RPG's and airstrikes by literally everyone in the game

 

learn to aim, add grips or longer barrels to your gun, go prone with a bipod. Shoot in controlled bursts

 

Anyways I'm done ranting about sound design, let me know your opinions about this

 

[edit] also, please stop comparing this game to battlefield, it's not trying to replicate anything of that game.

I agree, you summed that up nicely. 

 

Still, with the current mechanics in place. I think the game will thrive as an Arcade style shooter. Larger playerbase and it will enable to game to succeed. In turn, I feel a minimap would be a great addition. A lot of people have requested it both on this forum and the suggestion channel on the discord. And also agree about the maps, the newer maps defintely play better for vehicles. 

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I knew someone would come up with this stupid "l2p" or "git gud" argument...

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Dear Andromeda

I am very happy that the WW3 community has such a member as you who actually overcomes himself to make thoughts about "Why is stuff happening?".
You are asking the real questions here ?.

With that being sad it also makes me unhappy to see people confusing criticism with insults.. or whyever people respond to such a promoting post with those "git gud" reactions.

Anyway keep up the constructive criticism. That's the way to go so the devs can create a game which the community and themselves enjoy playing.

Have a nice day

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Well, I don't think, that having constant minimap itself will be gamebreaking even on TDM. But on this minimap you will have only 3 things:
1) Your own position marker (in the center of the minimap).
2) Your teammates signature markers.
3) Terrain map.

Enemies should be seen on the minimap ONLY by UAV strikes (same as now) or mini-drone (suggestion).

Other words, it's realistic. Your on-helmet display doesn't depend on UAV in the sky, but enemy spotting depends.

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5 hours ago, †FeuerEuphorie† said:

3) Terrain map.

This is a nice suggestion, because it's sometimes confusing to see pings through walls or fences.
With a red dot on the minimap (or regular map if the minimap won't be implemented) it would be easier to track enemies.

Keep in mind that with a minimap the HUD will be even more clustered, witch is also a complaint some people have about the game.

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