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tynblpb

Devs, why did u do this to us?!

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Posted (edited)

Okay, sry for clickbait theme title😋, but the whole premise is still the same.

In the dark ages of 0.2 patch there was the feature: 1hit to the turret or engine from ABOVE would destroy the tank. With that, they were afraid to come close to for example A1-A2 CP on Moscow. This feature was removed. Okay...

In the 0.3 era IIRC u were able to destroy tank with direct hit to the rear with the Tandem RPG grenade. It was removed too.

In 0.4 RPG grenades got almost rifles projectiles ballistics.

Up to the last month 1 hit to the rear of the APC/IFV with Tandem grenade dealt 96 dmg. And if u had LMG u could finish it off with ur handheld weapon''s fire. Not so long ago I've noticed that tandem grenade is now dealing 64dmg to the APC's rear. Okay...

So, I decided to check the digits.

APC/IFV - 4 hits with single stage grenade, 2 tandem grenade hits, 1 tandem 2 single stage hits. FROM ANY ANGLE.

Tank - 6-8hits(depends on hits placement and how much dmg will be blocked by extraarmor). FROM ANY ANGLE.

Same goes for the tank shells. Doesn't matter where to shoot. There is NO weak zones anymore. The more and the faster u shoot the better is result. U need only to hit the target. For infantry now there is no point in creating ambushes and try to attack vehicles from behind - just surround urself with ammopacks and shoot non-stop.

One more thing: I didn't notice difference between HE and APFSDS tank shells. But for 30mm HE and APFSDS shells difference in damage that's dealt is clearly visible. What's the point in using tank APFSDS TANK shells then?

So here I am asking devs; Why did u do this? Was it intended? If yes, what was the reason to impoverish vehicle's armor gameplay mechanics? Was it because with with introduction of lowered price for rocket-strikes APS was supposed to be often replaced by jammers and the vehicles will be much more vulnerable to fire from the sides and back without much time to react? Is it temporary  and later will be revised or that's how it  will be from now on?

@Ragir? @Borreh? @anyone?😖

P.S. When such changes are being done is it possible to add them to patch notes or something like that?

Edited by tynblpb

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Shooting in the back is doing a lot more damage on all vehicles AFAIK, but someone from the design team should get in here, maybe @Kony or @Ryuzaki.

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24 minutes ago, Ragir said:

Shooting in the back is doing a lot more damage on all vehicles AFAIK

it does. Like 1.5 times more damage

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@tynblpb

 

This wasn't planned, and it seems like  a bug. We are going to investigate it.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, tynblpb said:

 

So, I decided to check the digits.

APC/IFV - 4 hits with single stage grenade, 2 tandem grenade hits, 1 tandem 2 single stage hits. FROM ANY ANGLE.

Tank - 6-8hits(depends on hits placement and how much dmg will be blocked by extraarmor). FROM ANY ANGLE.

Same goes for the tank shells. Doesn't matter where to shoot. There is NO weak zones anymore. The more and the faster u shoot the better is result. U need only to hit the target. For infantry now there is no point in creating ambushes and try to attack vehicles from behind - just surround urself with ammopacks and shoot non-stop.

One more thing: I didn't notice difference between HE and APFSDS tank shells. But for 30mm HE and APFSDS shells difference in damage that's dealt is clearly visible. What's the point in using tank APFSDS TANK shells then?

So here I am asking devs; Why did u do this? Was it intended? If yes, what was the reason to impoverish vehicle's armor gameplay mechanics? Was it because with with introduction of lowered price for rocket-strikes APS was supposed to be often replaced by jammers and the vehicles will be much more vulnerable to fire from the sides and back without much time to react? Is it temporary  and later will be revised or that's how it  will be from now on?

 

1. "Tank - 6-8hits(depends on hits placement and how much dmg will be blocked by extraarmor). FROM ANY ANGLE."

Not True, against tanks that appear to be undamaged before engagement. I frequently destroy Tanks, with as few as 2 Tandem hits, hitting the rear.  

A lot of factors to be considered, i don't know the exact mechanics.

  • Type of ammunition used
  • side of tank hit
  • angle of hit?  
  • did it hit armour?
  • APS defence?

When I go tank hunting I use the Tandem, so unsure how much the difference is. but definitely doesn't take 8 hits.

2. "I didn't notice difference between HE and APFSDS tank shells. But for 30mm HE and APFSDS shells difference in damage that's dealt is clearly visible. What's the point in using tank APFSDS TANK shells then?"

I don't notice much difference myself, but I'm guessing if the enemy vehicle has additional armour. It would penetrate the additional armour, harming the 'normal' armour and deal more damage than what the armour would of negated against a HE shell. The Max damage of HE & APFDS is the same, so it would be harder to notice the difference.

 

3. "Same goes for the tank shells. Doesn't matter where to shoot. There is NO weak zones anymore. The more and the faster u shoot the better is result. U need only to hit the target."

Tanks v Tanks (HE Shell) do seem tougher this patch, but I'm sure, direction does still effect it. I seem to win more engagements when I keep my armour facing forward, and the enemy has their side of rear exposed.

Edited by Big Z
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4 hours ago, tynblpb said:

Okay, sry for clickbait theme title😋, but the whole premise is still the same.

In the dark ages of 0.2 patch there was the feature: 1hit to the turret or engine from ABOVE would destroy the tank. With that, they were afraid to come close to for example A1-A2 CP on Moscow. This feature was removed. Okay...

In the 0.3 era IIRC u were able to destroy tank with direct hit to the rear with the Tandem RPG grenade. It was removed too.

In 0.4 RPG grenades got almost rifles projectiles ballistics.

Up to the last month 1 hit to the rear of the APC/IFV with Tandem grenade dealt 96 dmg. And if u had LMG u could finish it off with ur handheld weapon''s fire. Not so long ago I've noticed that tandem grenade is now dealing 64dmg to the APC's rear. Okay...

So, I decided to check the digits.

APC/IFV - 4 hits with single stage grenade, 2 tandem grenade hits, 1 tandem 2 single stage hits. FROM ANY ANGLE.

Tank - 6-8hits(depends on hits placement and how much dmg will be blocked by extraarmor). FROM ANY ANGLE.

Same goes for the tank shells. Doesn't matter where to shoot. There is NO weak zones anymore. The more and the faster u shoot the better is result. U need only to hit the target. For infantry now there is no point in creating ambushes and try to attack vehicles from behind - just surround urself with ammopacks and shoot non-stop.

One more thing: I didn't notice difference between HE and APFSDS tank shells. But for 30mm HE and APFSDS shells difference in damage that's dealt is clearly visible. What's the point in using tank APFSDS TANK shells then?

So here I am asking devs; Why did u do this? Was it intended? If yes, what was the reason to impoverish vehicle's armor gameplay mechanics? Was it because with with introduction of lowered price for rocket-strikes APS was supposed to be often replaced by jammers and the vehicles will be much more vulnerable to fire from the sides and back without much time to react? Is it temporary  and later will be revised or that's how it  will be from now on?

@Ragir? @Borreh? @anyone?😖

P.S. When such changes are being done is it possible to add them to patch notes or something like that?

If you can do this much research and make some claims that go against multiple players experience, a little video evidence shouldn't be too hard for you.
It would also help the developers see what you see instead of sending them on a goose chase to duplicate what you've posted here. 
Just my recommendation.

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5 hours ago, tynblpb said:

APC/IFV - 4 hits with single stage grenade, 2 tandem grenade hits, 1 tandem 2 single stage hits. FROM ANY ANGLE.

Tank - 6-8hits(depends on hits placement and how much dmg will be blocked by extraarmor). FROM ANY ANGLE.

Same goes for the tank shells. Doesn't matter where to shoot. There is NO weak zones anymore. The more and the faster u shoot the better is result. U need only to hit the target. For infantry now there is no point in creating ambushes and try to attack vehicles from behind - just surround urself with ammopacks and shoot non-stop.

One more thing: I didn't notice difference between HE and APFSDS tank shells. But for 30mm HE and APFSDS shells difference in damage that's dealt is clearly visible. What's the point in using tank APFSDS TANK shells then?

I'm sorry but this is all wrong. You can one or two hit literally any vehicle if you have TANDEM into the back. Maybe 3 if luck isn't on the side or there is an armor which opposite to my knowledge makes it a three hit tandem. Weak zones are there, I have no clue how you managed to get this.

 

And BOIIII- There is a big difference between HE and APFSDS. What's the point of using APFSDS? Tanks, IFVs, AFVs, and literally anything that isn't a flesh target.

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Posted (edited)
3 часа назад, Kony сказал:

@tynblpb

 

This wasn't planned, and it seems like  a bug. We are going to investigate it.

And here I was going with: it's @Ragir who is guilty! If he didn't type this line

 

Цитата

Hit registration from characters also applies to vehicles - Heli Drone should be now hittable with RPGs,

everyithing would be staying just fine! We all know, that soldiers do not have extra "rear" dmg. Why will the vehicles have extra dmg to the rear if they are like soldiers now?😅

2 часа назад, Big Z сказал:

1. "Tank - 6-8hits(depends on hits placement and how much dmg will be blocked by extraarmor). FROM ANY ANGLE."

Not True, against tanks that appear to be undamaged before engagement. I frequently destroy Tanks, with as few as 2 Tandem hits, hitting the rear.  

A lot of factors to be considered, i don't know the exact mechanics.

  • Type of ammunition used
  • side of tank hit
  • angle of hit?  
  • did it hit armour?
  • APS defence?

When I go tank hunting I use the Tandem, so unsure how much the difference is. but definitely doesn't take 8 hits

6-8 SINGLE STAGE hits. I can easily hit Leo with single stage RPG grenade up to 7 times(2 hits with reduced by additional armor dmg) and it'll still be alive. And FYI there are parts of Leo tank where u can shoot with anything u want and how much u want, and there would be not even a scratch.

1 час назад, TCPPolak сказал:

I'm sorry but this is all wrong. You can one or two hit literally any vehicle if you have TANDEM into the back. Maybe 3 if luck isn't on the side or there is an armor which opposite to my knowledge makes it a three hit tandem. Weak zones are there, I have no clue how you managed to get this

 

2 часа назад, @PRUNKgaming сказал:

If you can do this much research and make some claims that go against multiple players experience, a little video evidence shouldn't be too hard for you.
It would also help the developers see what you see instead of sending them on a goose chase to duplicate what you've posted here. 
Just my recommendation.

That's why I was sitting and wasting my time instead of playing. Because everything WORKS JUST FINE.

Like here.

rpgtankrear.gif

Or here.

tandemvstank.gif.a22f897ce8a222204df16a623398c3e7.gif

Front and side armor of tank are equal. But rear now is too. This 1 below is on Live WZ server.

livetank.gif.30e0e9a859fc37ac7b69d90ca87e8c63.gif

P.S. When I was opening the theme, I was something like 30km far from PC with saved videos. I do not post anything if I don't have proofs.

Edited by tynblpb

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2 minutes ago, tynblpb said:

That's why I was sitting and wasting my time instead of playing. Because everything WORKS JUST FINE.

Like here.

rpgtankrear.gif.00a53673f6a1af190005756e624a6b29.gif

Or here.

tandemvstank.gif.a22f897ce8a222204df16a623398c3e7.gif

Front and side armor of tank are equal. But rear now is too. This 1 below is on Live WZ server.

livetank.gif.30e0e9a859fc37ac7b69d90ca87e8c63.gif

P.S.

rpgtankrear.gif

Um is that the best way to test?

Isn't TK damage significantly less than damage to the enemy & technically your are 'TKing' your vehicle?

Surely it would be more appropriate to record the value you get when you hit an enemy tank with an RPG? As the value from the hit translates to damage done to the vehicle.

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Posted (edited)
8 минут назад, Big Z сказал:

Um is that the best way to test?

Isn't TK damage significantly less than damage to the enemy & technically your are 'TKing' your vehicle?

Surely it would be more appropriate to record the value you get when you hit an enemy tank with an RPG? As the value from the hit translates to damage done to the vehicle.

Game thinks that it's neutral vehicle. So no punishment for attacking own vehicle and no reduced dmg to neutral vehicle. And unfortunately last few days I was attacking enemy tanks with Strombreaker and not an RPG. It's kinda hard to catch tank that will show u his rear side. And then there go APS, enemy infantry etc.

It'll be good if in UI there will be digits with current health, but I don't know, mb it's devs politics to show less digits in vehicles UI.

P.S. And yes, there is no other way to test. On Live usually ppl don't care that u r trying to test. When online was smaller, it was much easier to test something on Live.

Edited by tynblpb

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Posted (edited)

Sneaky C4 Kill on Fresh tank, note the enemy Vehicle hit value is out of 100

C4.thumb.jpg.cfd4c8aea48b8b316530c6b04bab3254.jpg

 

Someone who understands the score log better could explain.

from left to right;

  • first two were damaged tanks
  • Third was against a tank head on, may of used 3 or 4 Tandems?
  • Fourth, can't remeber is 1 or two quick RPG Tandem shots.
  • Fifth, was ambusing an M1. 

RPG.thumb.jpg.3c816fec6c71121489b0394d6577c40c.jpg

The killing blow on the Leopard front on, did 28.

so the tank has 28 health left before killing strike.

A front on Tandem hit does at least 28 damage.

This would translate as 4 Tandem hit max, to the front would destroy the tank (unsure if it was armoured or not)

 

Edited by Big Z
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Fake news dude, you can 2 shot even the most armored tank in the game with a tandem. shooting it in the bumper. 

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A green icon on a vehicle is not neutral. It's friendly.
Friendly fire damage is reduced by like 80% or something

 

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16 hours ago, Big Z said:

I don't notice much difference myself, but I'm guessing if the enemy vehicle has additional armour. It would penetrate the additional armour, harming the 'normal' armour and deal more damage than what the armour would of negated against a HE shell. The Max damage of HE & APFDS is the same, so it would be harder to notice the difference.

Yup, this is how it works. 

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9 часов назад, @PRUNKgaming сказал:

A green icon on a vehicle is not neutral. It's friendly.
Friendly fire damage is reduced by like 80% or something

 

Yes. And that's why my allied T-72 on the spawnpoint is blue(3rd gif), and "allied" Leo is greeny. Like it's in my customization menu.

5076840F39233842B44B8A269EAC813B97572726

MAYBE this reduced to the rear dmg works only for empty vehicles. I don't know. Yesterday I tried to drive some vehicles to check, how is it in actual game. I'm confused now. But not by this topic's theme how actually does armor works. Now I have few questions about how do vehicles on-board jammers work . I'm RLY confused. And later I'll start new theme.

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Цитата

Now I have few questions about how do vehicles on-board jammers work . I'm RLY confused. And later I'll start new theme.

I thought that I added jammer to loadout and that it was bugged... Things are much worse: APS currently do not work.

 

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